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Teeth falling out on a fruit diet

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06 Jun 2011 02:33 - 06 Jun 2011 02:35 #7476 by Yuliya
Yuliya created the topic: Teeth falling out on a fruit diet

David wrote: But I have never encountered people's teeth falling out from fasting only from an extended fruitarian diet (no vegetables or excessive fruit)


I would like to say that according to my knowledge teeth falling out on a fruitarian diet is more of a myth than anything else. Whenever you dig a little deeper it turns out that either a person already had huge teeth issues before starting on a fruitarian diet, or they were struggling with their transition to fruitarian diet and constantly ate/binged on cooked food with lots of fat and ate unripe highly acidic fruit in addition to that (like unripe mangos and pineapples).

There is the whole huge network of people who eat predominantly fruit sometimes going with no greens for months and they often laugh about this myth of teeth falling out.

Check out this thread - www.30bananasaday.com/profiles/blog/show...%3AComment%3A1037342

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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06 Jun 2011 05:26 - 06 Jun 2011 05:27 #7478 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
In response to the photos, Milena, all I can say is WOW! What a transformation.

Anne Osborne, author of Fruitarianism: The Path to Paradise, told me that she fasted everyother day for a whole year and that the enamel on her teeth was re-built during this time.

I have also heard of peoples' fillings falling out and the dentition of the cavity filling in over time through fasting and good diet.

Lots of people lose teeth on a SAD diet, but for some reason that doesn't seem to worry anyone...

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06 Jun 2011 19:09 #7486 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Thank you Esmee!

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All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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07 Jun 2011 23:05 #7525 by david
david replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Yulia this may be the case, but Dr Bass admitted to me that his teeth fell out while overdoing the fruit diet experiments I think it was too long on grapes. Or I read it on his site. Then there is a guy here in London known as Jungle Eyes who was 100% raw fruitarian for 20 + years and he certainly had teeth missing after going on this diet. I didn't meet him personally but my friend Robert (also a site member) does know him personally.

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08 Jun 2011 02:40 #7526 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
I talke to Dr. Filonov about fruiterianism, vegan and raw foodism once. He told me that in his professional experience he had never seen more people suffering from degenerative bone diseases and spinal cord outgrowth then with people who follow those diets. He finds them to be imbalanced and dangerous as a long-term dietary choice.

His personal diet consists of fish, veggies, fruits, some starches and probiotic dairy.

I do tend to agree with him. It's ok to go on one of those diets for a while but to adopt it as a permanent choice... I would never advise that.

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08 Jun 2011 07:34 #7527 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
I talked to Dr. Bass on the phone and he told me that he had 3 of his abscessed teeth fall out when he went on a water fast. He did not mention anything about his teeth falling out during his grape diet.

In any case I always closely monitor the physical sensations that my body is experiencing and I would never go on eating one fruit that in any way makes me feel uncomfortable, or that feels too acidic, etc.
That's just a common sense.

I am used to people being afraid of fruitarianism and telling all kinds of scary stories about it. It is nothing new. It is very hard to get to the core of these experiences. It's hard to know what a particular person was eating exactly, what was their state of health before they changed their diet, and many other factors. Some people call themselves fruitarians and include grain and a lot of overt fats in their diet. Some people lie about what they eat and just 'wish to be' fruitarians.

The only facts that I know for sure are about myself. I know exactly what I eat, I know what my health state was before I changed my diet, I know how my health changed over the years, and I am very closely in touch with my body right now.
The best thing that I can do is to do what I believe is right and to demostrate with my own life how the frutarian diet will affect my body.
It is a matter of my honor to make sure that I will always be 100% honest and open about my diet and about my health - before and after.

Maybe all of us truly do what we sincerely believe to be the right thing.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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08 Jun 2011 08:50 #7530 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Yuliya,

Fruitarianism is still very new and there is no long-term longevity data that has been collected. Yet, we do know that pretty much every person who lived or lives past 100 and has been interviewed stated the same thing that they eat small and well balanced meals. There is only a handful of long-lived vegetarians known in the history comparing to omnivores.

Yes, it is hard to know what a particular person was eating exactly, etc. But the people Dr. Filonov was talking about were Russian, and you being Russian should know we do not do anything half-ass, so if they claimed that they were vegan, then they were vegan in the most true sense of that word. Besides, as a physician I am sure he could determine their deficiencies based on their diet.

You are still very young and have not even started to go through the physical changes our bodies go through as we age. I just hope that you are open enough to make dietary adjustments as your body needs alter.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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08 Jun 2011 19:37 - 08 Jun 2011 19:38 #7541 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Here is a nice controversial discussion I just have to jump into. :P

I know from personal experience that there are healthy vegan/fruitarian diets and unhealthy ones. The ones that Dr. Filonov has seen are obviously sick, that is why they went to him in the first place, so that is a self-selecting group. I know many junk food vegans who live off cooked and processed foods almost exclusively with almost no fruits or vegetables. In the world of fruitarianism, there are many who have excluded leafy greens from their diet which is not a good idea for most people (though a few have done very well over the years). I suspect it would be quite difficult to eat a proper fruitarian diet in Russia, as it is not even easy for me here in the Unitd States. I think high quality fruit is very important and, outside of the tropical reagions of the world, it is very hard to get. I just found out the dragon fruit I have been eating is irradiated. How many other fruits coming into thi country are subject to the same treatment? It does sometime make me wonder whether a healthy fruitarian diet is even doable in the US (outside of South Florida or Hawaii). I must say it can be very discouraging at times. Fruitarianism is not the only healthy diet, as all the doctors at TrueNorth have been completely vegan, including cooked vegetables, beans, and starches, but no animal products whatsoever, for over 20 years, and I must say they are some of the healthiest people I have EVER met. So, the type of vegan or fruitarian diet one follows make all the difference in the world for long term success. That being said, the longest lived people that have been studied have included small amounts of fermented dairy and tiny amounts of meat (and I mean tiny!). The people of Okinawa lived almost exclusively off of sweet potatoes and one 1-3% animal products. And all of these long lived people consumed diets that were very low in fat (less than 10%) whether cooked or not.

Blessings, Esmée ♥

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08 Jun 2011 20:47 - 08 Jun 2011 20:57 #7544 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Esmee,
I agree with you so much about how difficult it is to find good quality organic fruit. Even if it is organic it is often not ripe...
Of course when you live on fruit, than you get better at it :)

I do not believe that greens are essential, but of course if there is no good fruit to eat, one has to eat something, so we start making all kinds of combos-ombos out of greens. Very rarely do people actually eat greens plain and unprocessed.

Milena,
I disagree with your statement that I should trust someone's testimonial on the basis that they are Russian.
Besides, as Esmee said, it is indeed a very difficult task to be a fruitarian in Russia. I wonder what these people were eating...

I also would like to say that my adherence to the fruit based diet is motivated by years of research and a background of a very poor health. I switched to raw vegan diet in June 2002 and before that I've had all kinds of health issues starting from my teenager years, including irritable bowel syndrome, chronic depression, fatigue, constant colds, insomnia, disappearing period (treated with hormones), and being severely underweight at some point (despite eating a ton of 'regular' non-vegan natural Russian food). Particularly my irritable bowel syndrome did not allow me to eat anything at all without discomfort... It was a constant torture.
Over the last 9 years (since June 2002) my raw vegan diet gradually moved toward low fat fruit based diet and continues to evolve still.

My health also have continued to improve over these years.
At this time I do not have any health complaints whatsoever, except for ONE ONLY tooth that was damaged many years ago and that now has to be extracted, but I want my body to do it on its own, since I have total faith that the body will do the right thing if given the right conditions.

In any case I am on this website to get support and encouragement with my fasting, and I would appreciate if people were more open-minded about the fruitarian diet. It's no good to spread a negative auto-suggestion all around. The mind is very powerful indeed.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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08 Jun 2011 21:38 #7545 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting

Esmée La Fleur wrote: The people of Okinawa lived almost exclusively off of sweet potatoes and one 1-3% animal products.


No according to several sources..:)

"The Okinawa Diet
You may be surprised to find that Okinawans eat more animal proteins than their cousins on the main island of Japan. They consume a diet consisting mainly of fruits, vegetables, soy, grains, seaweeds, fish, and some pork." www.longevity-and-antiaging-secrets.com/Okinawa-Island.html

According to another study "Meat, poultry, and eggs account for just 3% of the diet, fish about 11%" of their diet. Which means 14% of their diet is animal protein. It is lower then standad Western diet but certainly way higher then vegan or fruitarian.

Also the longest living people in former Soviet Union (and most of the world) are Georgians (my husband is one of them). They have been studied as well and their diet does includes meat, fish and dairy.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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08 Jun 2011 21:53 #7546 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting

Yuliya wrote: It's no good to spread a negative auto-suggestion all around. The mind is very powerful indeed.

I don't think anyone here spreads a negative auto-suggestions. There are certain scientific facts that should not be overlooked when someone is making a health changing decisions.

I was very sickly as a child all the way into my adulthood. I spent most of my school days at home with resperatory diseases and flues no matter whether it was winter or summer. My immune system sucked and did not get strong until I was in my early to mid 30s. It did it on its own though without any dietary changes on my part. I am physically much healthier now then I was in my 20s. I think the more health problems we have as children the stronger we get as adults. I have many examples of that, which could have been the case with you as well.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

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08 Jun 2011 23:35 #7547 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
I am referring to the diet they ate before WWII.
www.okicent.org/docs/anyas_cr_diet_2007_1114_434s.pdf

see page 443 of the study for a breakdown

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09 Jun 2011 03:21 - 09 Jun 2011 03:31 #7555 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting

Esmée La Fleur wrote: I am referring to the diet they ate before WWII.
www.okicent.org/docs/anyas_cr_diet_2007_1114_434s.pdf

see page 443 of the study for a breakdown


Well, at least the did eat some fish, meat and eggs. In fact they eat a total of 19 grams of animal protein all together comparing to <1 gram of fruits. In that case we could conclude that to live past 100 one should not eat any fruit..;)

Yuliya,

I hope you do not see my posts as a personal attack on your dietary choices or my way of trying to convince you to change your mind. I just think that the readers of this topic should be able to see both sides of the coin to make educated conclusion on their own.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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09 Jun 2011 03:56 - 09 Jun 2011 03:59 #7556 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Dear Milena,

The measurements are by weight in grams, not protein in grams. One ounce of fish weighs 28 grams, so they were eating less than an ounce of animal food per day. Most fish contains 6 grams of protein per ounce (28 gms by weight), so they were consuming a minisculr amount of animal protein--something like 3 gms per day on average.

Blessings, Esmée

This does not mean you cannot be healthy on slightly more animal protein, especially if it is lean wild game. And there are plenty of people who recover from cancer on a Macrobiotic diet (which includes fish, but no dairy, is low in fat, and is 95% cooked, yet is also 95% plant-based--or vegan) which, in my mind, is even more impressive than living a long time (though that is impressive too!) I believe there are many ways (within a certain frame work) to get to the same place (i.e optimal health) and we each have to discover what works best for us. For some people, health will only come to them through a diet that is 100% raw. Victoria Boutenko's daughter Valya has made a wonderful documentary of 50 or so people suffering from many different illnesses for whom this was true. It is called "Reversing the Irreversible" and is very inspiring.

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09 Jun 2011 04:05 #7557 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting

Esmée La Fleur wrote: Dear Milena,

The measurements are by weight in grams, not protein in grams. One ounce of fish weighs 28 grams, so they were eating less than an ounce of animal food per day. Most fish contains 6 grams of protein per ounce (28 gms by weight), so they were consuming a minisculr amount of animal protein--something like 3 gms per day on average.

Blessings, Esmée

This does not mean you cannot be healthy on slightly more animal protein, especially if it is lean wild game. And there are plenty of people who recover from cancer on a Macrobiotic diet (which includes fish, but no dairy, is low in fat, and is 95% cooked, yet is also 95% plant-based--or vegan) which, in my mind, is even more impressive than living a long time (though that is impressive too!) I believe there are many ways (within a certain frame work) to get to the same place (i.e optimal health) and we each have to discover what works best for us.


I absolutely agree with you. Yet there is a known fact that balanced omnivourous diet is much easier to manage in terms of avoiding deficinecies then any other diet. Other diets require way too much mental work and time, which most of the population does not have. So they key is to educate people how to eat clean and fast for longevity and rejuvination.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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09 Jun 2011 04:56 #7558 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Dear Milena,

Dr. Doug Graham, in his book The 80/10/10 Diet www.foodnsport.com has shown how easy it is to get every nutrient you need and more with a raw diet of fruits and leafy greens. There is really nothing simpler, as the diet requires no preparation time unless you include blended smoothies which might take 10 mintutes from start to finish to make and clean up. The major mistake people make with a raw diet is including way way way too much fat in the form of nuts, seeds, and avocados, as well as oil on salads. Many raw foodists, believe it or not, can obtain 60% or more of their calories from fat (which is worse than SAD!). This is a huge mistake precisely because it can lead to nutrient deficiencies (oils and fats are calorie dense, but nutrient poor). To be successful over the long term on a raw diet, the diet must provide 80% of its calories as carbohydrate from fruit. Then it is impossible to not get all of the vitamin, minerals. and proteins that you need. The key is being sure to eat enough total calories. There is no such thing as a protein deficiency outside of third world starvation situations. It is impossible not to get enough protein on a plant-based diet if you are consuming enough calories. Babies only require about 5% protein in mother's milk and they have a much higher demand for protein for their growth and development and already mature adults. Many raw foodists also eat too few calories, and then you will run in to problems. You must get around 2000 kcal a day (which most people easily do on an omnivorous cooked diet, but when switching over to fruit for most of their calories must learn how much fruit to consume to meet the same level of calories). But there is nothing easier than a diet of raw fruits and leafy greens. There are several forums, just like this one, for people who are living living this diet successfully. Some of them are ultra elite athletes who are performing better now than they ever did on a good omnivious diet, and they are now many years old but beating the records they set when younger. It is basically going back to the diet that our chimpanzee cousins eat (fruit and greens), and they are stronger and healthier than any human I have ever met. The only thing that makes the fruitarian diet difficult is getting good quality, ripe fruit. That can definitely be a challenge depending on where you live. But that is not a fault in terms of the nutritional quality of this type of diet.

Blessings, Esmée ♥

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09 Jun 2011 06:23 - 09 Jun 2011 06:50 #7559 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
My admiration to Esmee for taking the time to type up all the explanations and arguments in such a positive and non-confrontational manner.

Dear Milena,
I understand that you feel very strongly about this topic and you are doing your best to warn people from following this path. You also have my complete respect for your courage in exploring the path of dry fasting.

In this respect you and I are very much alike. We both are explorers of the controversial topics that are not accepted by mainstream and we both are very dedicated. Only you began on the path of dry fasting just a few months ago, and I began on the path of raw veganism over 9 years ago.

You have Dr. Filonov as your guide and your counselor and I have no doubt that he is an expert in his field.

I am in turn inspired by:

Dr. Douglas Graham (an athlete and low fat raw vegan since 1978, an author of 80/10/10 Diet, Website: www.foodnsport.com ),

Dr. Robert Lockhart (30 years raw vegan, now fruitarian, and 40 years vegetarian, interview - vimeo.com/11986168 ),

Anne Osborne (about 20 years fruitarian, brought up 2 children on the fruitarian diet, an author of Fruitarianism – The Path to Paradise, Website: www.fruitgod.com/ ),

Dan McDonald (low fat raw vegan for about 10 years, his youtube channel - www.youtube.com/user/liferegenerator ),

Durianrider and Freelee (The founders of the most popular low fat raw vegan network – www.30BananasADay.com ),

Don Bennett (low fat raw vegan for over 18 years, Don Bennett is the director of the Health 101 Institute ),

Nora Lenz (raw vegan since 2000, low fat after a short transition, www.RawSchool.com ),

Tim_Van_Orden (professional competitive runner and stair climber, Website: www.RunningRaw.com , 
NEW YORK CITY, NY (February 1st, 2011) – Tim Van Orden, 42, of Bennington, Vermont rose to the occasion at the 34th running of the Empire State Building Run Up on Tuesday morning with an exceptional 4th place finish. Van Orden was the top American finisher and won the Masters division for the second straight year, earning him the title of the ‘World’s fastest stair climber over the age of forty’.),

Dr. Samuel Mielcarski (low fat raw vegan for over 12 years, licensed physical therapist, Websites: www.DrSamPT.com / www.RevolutionaryRehab.com ) ,

Tony Wright (A raw vegan and human consciousness researcher, Tony Wright is a coauthor of Left in the Dark book, which presents an outline of his theory that the human brain owes part of its extraordinary development to the biochemistry of a fruit diet, leftinthedark.org.uk/
beyond-belief.org.uk/ ),

Michael Arnstein (low fat raw vegan, competitive ultra distance runner www.TheFruitarian.com ),

Karen Ranzi (low fat raw vegan since 1995, Website: www.SuperHealthyChildren.com ),

Sebastian Baum (raw vegan for over 10 years, athlete, photo - www.30bananasaday.com/photo/mtn-pose?context=user ),

Grant Campbell (ultra runner, the owner of Raw Natural Hygiene , a founder of Raw Reflections 811rv healthy lifestyle retreats)

Chris Kendall (low fat raw vegan athlete, www.The-Raw-Advantage.com )

Dr. Virginia Vetrano, D.C., M.D., D.Sc. (about 70 years old, currently retired, www.roylretreat.com/vetrano.html )

And others…

All these people are the most well known leaders of the low fat raw vegan movement, but the list is far from being complete. Some people just don’t want the publicity and prefer to take care of their own health and to inspire several closest friends and family members. One of these people is Robert Rust – a raw vegan, mainly frutarian for about 20 years whom I had the privilege to communicate to personally and to receive his guidance, inspiration and answers to my countless questions.

Milena, it is my own mistake that I had joined this conversation in an attempt to shine more light on the myths and misunderstanding surrounding fruit based diets. I would prefer to concentrate on fasting and my own healing.

I understand that there is still much controversy and fear around vegan, raw vegan and fruitarian diets. It is not my goal to promote these diets at this time on this website. I have come to learn and to get support and inspiration in fasting, not to teach and preach about my diet. I hope we can leave this subject open without having to establish THE TRUTH and let people who are interested to do their own research.

The info of all kinds is out there.
But only through your own sincere quest can you truly know.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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09 Jun 2011 15:32 #7560 by david
david replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Yuliya thank you for all these very useful links. I experemeinted with raw food for 2 years in my 20's. I adopted the Instinctotherapy diet for a full two years and can attest to the fact that it changed me in so many positive ways. And it is not me saying this about myself it is what others were saying about me. They found me much nicer to be with and my face also changed in a good way. I guess it was a happier face. So I do appreciate your efforts to continue to educate us and to share your views on here. And I know that there are many site members who will resonate with your posts on this topic.
Now that I am restructuring the site I would ideally also like to find a good placement for raw food related topics. How about the natural hygiene section? We could have a raw food link and tie in articles,books, fourm topics etc? I will also put the question to Isa as I know she is on the raw food low fat vegan diet too.

Thanks for your input

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Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

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09 Jun 2011 18:18 #7561 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
David,
I appreciate your positive comment.

I agree that natural hygiene and raw food topics are very closely related and what you suggested sounds good to me.

Also, I was wondering if there is any way to make it easier to see if there are any new comments to the blog posts. Going back to the blog posts to check if there are any new replies can be very time consuming and unproductive.

Thank you for making this place more user friendly for all of us!

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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09 Jun 2011 19:17 #7562 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Dear Esmee and Yuliya,

Esmee, I appreciate the time you put into explaining to me the symplicity of raw food diet. By the way, chimpanzees are omnivourous. In the nature they eat insects, small birds and their eggs.:)

Yuliya,

I won't even begin to list doctors who support omnivourous diet for it would be at least 90% of all dieticians and nutritionists, as well as general practicioners.:)

On that note....

I think our disagreement in this topic stems from the fundamental differnce in our philosophy in regards to food and body.

You see I honestly could not care less what food does to my body. I never had any food addictions, allergies or digestive problems that would resrict me in any way. I study this subject so I could help others to sort out their food issues, but not for me personally.

We were given our senses to better experience life in human body. That include sense of taste. I eat for experience and fun. In my life I had a pleasure to try all kinds of exotic things which inluded bear, horse, deer, rabbit, crocodile, and kangaroo, just to mention a few. As I traveled the world I had a taste of some exquisite meals and I would never give up those culinary adventures.

Personally I believe that most "-ism"s, i.e. capitalism, shovenism, communism, veganism, vegeterianism, fruiterianism, etc signify opression of choices. I would not want to consciously put myself in a position where I would have to deny myself certain experience. Hence, anything with -ism as an adopted life philosophy or life path is automatically out. I like to remain free to chose and experience life fully (cannot wait for my kids to grow up, that is the only thing that holds me in one place right now..:)) and that includes food.

Reading other forums focused on raw foodism, veganism, etc, made me realize that those dietary paths have been elivated to the cult levels and that is absolutely ridiculous. Why would people be so obsessed with their imperfect bodies is beyond me.

As for fasting, personally I do not fast to cure a health problem, I fast to strengthen my spirit and to be in a position to help others through my knowledge and experience. If I were as obsessed with what's good or not good for my body as so many others I would probably never dry fasted for a long time let alone fasting for 40-days. But I did, because I wanted to show that human spirit and will power is much stronger then the body. It is the strength of the spirit that enables body to heal.

On the personal note, I also like to remind my body who is the boss once in a while...:) Which I do by denying its cravings.

So I hope both of you now understand where I am coming from and why we would not be able to agree on this topic...:) even though I love you both!

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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