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Teeth falling out on a fruit diet

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09 Jun 2011 20:10 #7563 by david
david replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Personally I avoid meat because I believe that animals have as much right to life as I do hence I adopt the path of non harming. This does not mean I have never eaten meat or occassionally I don't have tuna or a tiny helping of lamb from my partners cooking. (she eats meat) But I would never cook it myself let alone buy it. However this is a choice based on a religious belief and also an ecological one as I do not beleive that animal farming is sustainable for our planet. I also believe that the body flourished on sunlight and any meat or fish is twice removed from sunlight whereas green grass and fruit is only once removed. I have adopted this belief from a chap called Omram Michael Aivenhov. But I would never preach my beliefs on food to anyone else as I believe everyone is a totally free agent hence it would never occur to me to try to convince my partner to become a vegetarian.

Freedom of choice and thought I believe is the greatest gift one human can give to another.

So I too love you all but wanted to weight in with my thoughts on this topic. And also believe that along with fasting raw food serves to elevate the spirit. I speak from my two year experience on raw food.

Having said all that I also believe that in some situations if one hunts meat for one's own consumption and not for sport but out of necessity and thanks the spirit of the animal it is more acceptable than meat from a slaughter house but I would only try this if I had already consumed all the grass in the area. Tomorrow I might have a different view though.....

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

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09 Jun 2011 20:21 #7564 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
I was a strict vegeterian for 4 years and it did not do anything for me at all, neither spiritually nor physically, except for constuntly having to say "no" to things I love, like sushi...:)

I agree that freedom of choice and thought are the greatest gift..:) as well as freedom of information..

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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09 Jun 2011 20:58 #7565 by david
david replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
I forgot to mention that the reason I discontinued with the raw food experiment is that it made my life so very complicated. I had to say 'no' so many times and turned down so many invites to meals and other culinary centred events that I thought that I had turned into a solipsist monk. Another reason I believe fasting is a good middle path as with IF one can keep the body relatively clear of toxins and I trust that with an IF lifestyle one will eventually migrate away from unhealthy foods and quantities simply because they lose thier appeal rather than abstaining from them with grinding will power.

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

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09 Jun 2011 21:03 #7566 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Ditto to that David!

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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09 Jun 2011 21:32 - 09 Jun 2011 21:41 #7569 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Great comments, David. I have studied hunter-gatherers and have a great deal of respect for their way of life, and in spite of eating a fair amount of meat (clean, healthy, wild game, killed with respect), they experience no chronic degenerative health problems. While I do not eat meat due to ethical and spiritual reasons, in addition to health reasons, I do not feel it is wrong to do so in the context of a natural environment. It is only in the past 50 years or so, with global food transport and refrigeration, that we even have the option to be raw vegans. So, in a certain sense, raw vegan-ISM is definitely a bit of an artificial life style, almost a luxury if you will. But virtually every aspect of modern life is artificial and unnatural. The only way to live a natural life is to return to the jungle (or savannah) of our ancestors, and I am not sure many of us would really want to go that route just to be able to live naturally. Morally, one could argue that it would be better for the environment to live off locally grown food instead of bringing in food from the other side of the globe with all the pollution that is causes. I would respect someone for making that decision, even if it meant including some animal source foods in their diet. Ultimately, the most important thing is how we feel personally in our body, mind, and spirit from the choices we make for ourselves, as we are the one who must ultimately live with us!

Thank you, Milena, for explaining yourself further, as I now understand more fully where you are coming from. We are all here to have our own experiences, and I do not think there is any one right way but, rather, many right ways to live life.

I definitely believe we are all different, and the same thing does not work for everyone. I chose not to eat certain foods because when I eat them I feel absolutely terrible and there is no fun or freedom in that for me. I believe that we are all given certain challenges in life to help us grow spiritually and become more compassionate human beings.

Yuliya and I have both been extremely ill and tried a great many ways to regain out health, and the low-fat raw-vegan diet has been the path that has helped us the most. Regular fasting will likely take us both to the next higher level, and we are both grateful to have found this community for support.

Blessings, Esmée ♥

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10 Jun 2011 07:12 #7577 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting

Esmée La Fleur wrote:
Yuliya and I have both been extremely ill and tried a great many ways to regain out health, and the low-fat raw-vegan diet has been the path that has helped us the most. Regular fasting will likely take us both to the next higher level, and we are both grateful to have found this community for support.

Blessings, Esmée ♥


Agreed.
Thank you, Esmee.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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10 Jun 2011 07:46 - 10 Jun 2011 07:47 #7578 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
There is not a shadow of a doubt that animals experience pain and fear and are capable of suffering.

Have anyone watched the movie Earthings?
Here is the link to 2 minutes trailer - www.earthlings.com/ .

Of course "Free Will" is an extremely important concept in our life.
In fact my own transitioning to raw vegan diet was only by 50% a quest for a better health.
Another 50% was my quest for freedom.
Food is more than nourishment (or detriment) for our bodies. It is also memories, traditions, comfort, culture, entertainment, celebrations, addictions, pain and pleasure, emotions, friendships, conditioning - so many different things.
I gave them all up.
It wasn't just the food.
I cleared away my past, my cultural heritage, my childhood memories, traditions, and addictions.
And I began to unravel the complex web of my conditioning.
I welcomed unknown me and unknown future.
And, boy, did I transform during these years.
Now, I have to make sure that I actually want to be with my friends because I truly enjoy their company and they enjoy mine, not because we are sharing food and drinks.
So, I felt that raw vegan diet was a stepping stone to greater freedom - of the mind and also of the body due to better health and higher energy.

But that's not the main point of my post.
Let's go back to the idea of free will.
I am all for free will - to do as you wish, to choose your own path, your own journey, to experience this life to the fullest the way you want to experience it, to find your true calling, your real self!

The important concept for me here - AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT HURT OTHERS.

We are not hunters-gatherers any more.
There is a huge difference between them and us.

It is important to remember that in the history of humanity a lot of ancient tribes were also not refusing human flesh if situation allowed.
And the same is true for many of the great apes - cannibalism, that is.
This is the link to the article about first human tribes in Europe - www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/56243...te-for-children.html

And this is a link to the article about infanticide and cannibalism among chimpanzee -http://news.softpedia.com/news/Female-Chimps-Practice-Heavily-Infanticide-and-Cannibalism-54687.shtml

Do we really want to look for the correct diet there?
The question is not what we can digest. The question is what will give us health and vitality AND is ethical for us at this time of history – both for the animals considered to be food and for the planet.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.
The following user(s) said Thank You: david

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11 Jun 2011 07:08 #7596 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Dear Yuliya,

Thank you for sharing those links with us.

Yes, I agree that animals have emotions and feelings, as do plants and trees. In fact everything has its own emotional as well as physical life. I also agree that too many animals are treated with cruelty that is unnecessary.

The only reason I was a vegetarian for 4 years was spiritual. In the late Fall of 1992 I had experienced involuntary kundalini awakening which threw me into several years of rapid spiritual growth. Soon after that I became a vegetarian, because I rationally thought it was the right thing to do.

So what changed? Eventually I realized that everything on Earth happens according to the Universal Will. All souls whether it's a human soul or an animal soul or a plant soul have a specific purpose and are part of a bigger scheme. Animals that are born to serve as food either choose this form of incarnation or were karmically placed there. With millions of cows, sheep, chickens, lambs, pigs, etc., imagine how many souls would never have a chance to experience physical existence if people would have not domesticated animals for food? How can we tell for sure that these lives are created in vain and are not their opportunities for further spiritual evolution? We cannot.

However, what I do believe in is that as meat and dairy production became a giant global industry and fell under the spell of capitalism (another oppressive "-ism") it produced unnecessary cruelty and abuse of animals. I do believe that there should be very strict laws agains such producers and that the government regulations should be a lot stricter with huge fines and even closure of businesses violating imposed laws.

So, as you raised this topic, I am making a personal commitment to only purchase meat products from organic and kosher stores to support those producers that treat animals with humanity.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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11 Jun 2011 07:11 #7598 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting

Milena wrote: Dear Yuliya,

Thank you for sharing those links with us.

Yes, I agree that animals have emotions and feelings, as do plants and trees. In fact everything has its own emotional as well as physical life. I also agree that too many animals are treated with cruelty that is unnecessary.

The only reason I was a vegetarian for 4 years was spiritual. In the late Fall of 1992 I had experienced involuntary kundalini awakening which threw me into several years of rapid spiritual growth. Soon after that I became a vegetarian, because I rationally thought it was the right thing to do.

So what changed? Eventually I realized that everything on Earth happens according to the Universal Will. All souls whether it's a human soul or an animal soul or a plant soul have a specific purpose and are part of a bigger scheme. Animals that are born to serve as food either choose this form of incarnation or were karmically placed there. With millions of cows, sheep, chickens, lambs, pigs, etc., imagine how many souls would never have a chance to experience physical existence if people would have not domesticated animals for food? How can we tell for sure that these lives are created in vain and are not their opportunities for further spiritual evolution? We cannot.

However, what I do believe in is that as meat and dairy production became a giant global industry and fell under the spell of capitalism (another oppressive "-ism") it produced unnecessary cruelty and abuse of animals. I do believe that there should be very strict laws agains such producers and that the government regulations should be a lot stricter with huge fines and even closure of businesses violating imposed laws.

So, as you raised this topic, I am making a personal commitment to only purchase meat products from organic and kosher stores to support those producers that treat animals with humanity.


I commend your decision. ;)

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11 Jun 2011 07:20 #7601 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: just been scarred outta fasting
Thank you Esmee! And thank you for being a part of this discussion. I hope it will have an impact on those who end up reading it.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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