Copyright 2018 - Custom text here
  • fast for a cleanse

  • 2

    fast for a detox

  • 3

    fast for freedom

  • fast for longevity

Backaches if laying down, cannot sleep!!!

More
23 Jun 2010 22:35 #4686 by guy the artist
guy the artist created the topic: Backaches if laying down, cannot sleep!!!
Hello everyone, this my second water fast, I'm up to a week now and it's going very well, except for this backache when I lay down to sleep. The ache is mostly at level of the belt, and mostly in the back, but also through the middle and the front

My first fast last year was 8 days long and I had to stop because of work, and of vomiting bile. What kept me from sleeping that time was the pain in the gums of my mouth.

This time I would like to go 2 weeks, but these backaches are starting to get to me. I took a bath to help, it was so good that I was falling asleep, it scared me. I've put hot water bottles and it somewhat helped also, didn't try cold yet though...

For now I think I will try to lay down/sleep for 2 hours, then get up when the pain is to much and there are no position I can maintain, than go back to bed after an hour or two. What I don't understand is that most of the pain goes away when I am sitting or standing up??? I envy horses who sleeps while standing up :-)).
So last night I slept maybe an hour or two, and even during the day if I try to take a nap the pain comes back after ten minutes. Maybe I'll try to sleep in a chair...

Any comments and suggestions are more than welcome!
Thanks

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2010 22:51 #4687 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Backaches if laying down, cannot sleep!!!
Very welcome indeed Guy..

I experienced similar pains when starting fasting more than 30 years ago, and many of my patients also did, until we started advising them to follow a simple 5-step elimination cycle several times during every fasting day.. remember that fasting mobilizes toxins, you still need to eliminate them.. whilst in circulation, they can cause muscle pains and cramps.

See
www.fastingconnection.com/forum-faq/Foru...tep-detox-cycle.html

and a few dozen other posts in which this was explained a bit more. If any questions about it, please do not hesitate.. we'd all like to help!

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
23 Jun 2010 23:03 #4688 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Re:Backaches if laying down, cannot sleep!!!
Thanks for the fast reply.

I agree about toxin elimination, and I take ackes and pains with a smile because I see it as progress in my healing/cleansing/fasting process. I will look into the link you suggested, thanks

One question though, can lack of sleep hinder the cleaning process, having less overall energy or creating more toxins from sleeplesness. Luckily I chose my 2 weeks when I was of from work so it is no big concern, except being in a walikg daze the whole day!

Any thoughts on this?
Thanks
Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 08:02 #4689 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Backaches if laying down, cannot sleep!!!
There seems to be a change in sleeping patterns during fasting, some people sleeping more and others less. It is likely a period of rebalancing, depending on your usual sleep management pattern: Some people sleep less when they are stressed (trying to solve the issues) for example, while others sleep more (to "escape").. thus some people's "Sleep account" gets "overdrawn" whilst others' "wake account" does.

But there is no known association between detoxification and sleep. You do not need your brain to be in a different mode for your muscles, liver or other organs to do what they need to.

Actually, sleep is a mysterious phenomenon with very little if anything to explain why we "need" periods of unconsciousness. I do sometimes go on a "sleep fast" (not sleeping for a day or 2) in order to experience the mind differently. A change, they say, is as good as a holiday, after all!

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 11:16 #4690 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Thanks!
Thank you for you help and comments, I was able to get my first good night sleep since the start of my fast!

I did a combination of many things, the 5 step cycle of elimination, a big cushion under my knees to sleep my legs bent and up, and some chinese type of tiger balm oil: camphre I think, the one that penetrates to create warmth, this one kind of hid/blended the pain with the warmth. As I get into more active cleansing I hope to not need these other means.

I did some research on this site and on the web and I really love the concept of active fasting, it makes so much sense to me. I like when you wrote that when you fast is when you get into a very busy period as it gives you extra energy! I've read a lot of books on fasting and they generaly talk of resting, which almost feels like a stereotype of what fasting is. Few books if any talks about taking an active role in fasting, being a friend/proactive with your body, they all seem quite passive. I was very happy reading the post of another member on resistance training, which I usually do but was afraid to do during fasting. Now I understand that I can not only continue, but actually have an active role in my fast!

My wish for this fast is to keep it for 2 weeks to get rid of my old fat of my old life, I'm 50 now, so before I was smoking and eating the regular north american diet with loads of milk and process food. I've been a vegetarian since the last 10 years and mostly vegan in the last 5 years, and now getting more raw food in (I prefer to call it live food). My wish is to get rid of the old toxin filled fat and replace it with avocado/nuts/linseed oil....good fats. Not all of it of course, just whatever accumulates naturally. My first fast was my 50 year old bithday present to myself!

I also want to experience the healing part of fasting where the body needing more nutrients gets rid of unhealty growth or material in the body. This I haven't experienced in my first fast and this one so far. Does this come only when there is no more fat available, or does it start timewise as a process on the second week regardless of bodyfat?

If all goes well this second week (and it should as I am changing my perception form a passive fast to an active one) then I will look forward for my next year's fast and bring it to 3 weeks. I'm not sure about frequency though, some people advocate fasting one day per week plus 4 times one week during the year????

So if you have any comments on bodyfat and when does autolysis actually starts? and on frequency this would be helpfull. If you want you can tell me what frequency you pratice and what you generally do during a fast (if you change your daily activity planning for example)

Thanks Namasté

Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 12:04 #4691 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Thanks!
Thanks for an interesting post Guy. Re your questions:

1. Toxins are typically dissolved in the body fat.. and start getting out into the circulation as soon as fat is being broken down.. check for Ketones in the urine and you'll know when this happens.

2. I also think the one day per week and 4 weeks per year is a good idea. Longer fasts are more curative, shorter ones more maintenance.

3. Autolysis starts when needed.. depends SO much on your current composition, activities, etc.. so the ketones test is once more quite valuable. Other people can of course also smell the ketones in your breath..

I do stick to the weekly fast (Have done so for 30 odd years) and still use Mondays as the main fasting day, as it gives you so much more energy and time to catch up..

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 14:52 #4692 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Re:Thanks!
Again thanks for all the great information

I have been reading more on massage and came across this comment:

We Theoretically, during a fast, the body would be "looking" for redundant tissues to use first. We have found that fat, massaged during a fast, tends to be re-absorbed by the "hungry" blood diverted there by the massage process.

Interestingly, what we have found over time is that if you do the massage step while NOT ketotic, there's a tendency to put ON weight in the areas you massage. If you do this step during ketosis, you tend to lose from where you massage.. thus you can (albeit to a limited extent) "Reshape" your body by moving the focus of the massage step to where you wish to add substance to your body (Eating state) and to where you wish to lose (fasting state).


So if I understand well massaging increases blood flow to the region being massaged, and the blood contains the (enzymes?) looking for nurishment for the body. The 5 step cycle complements this by making sure the elimination organs are at their optimum?
(Since I am a bit scientifically minded if you could give me a link or some keywords on how the blood 'looks' that would be fine)

I find it very strange that the tradition of fasting has been one of passivity instead of active empowerment of our body. The 5 step cycle is now part of my fasting journeys!

Also I came across the concept of Intermittent Fasting or Fast-5:

The Fast-5 diet is a way of eating in which food intake is limited to a five-hour window. The five-hour window may occur any time during the day, but is usually placed in the evening, such as 4-9pm or 5-10 pm. The window is not for continuous consumption -- it's the time when one eats if desired.

During the window, one eats according to appetite, with no restriction on quantity or type of food. During the 19-hour fasting period (which includes sleeping) no calories are consumed, but water and other zero-calorie beverages may be consumed as desired.


Have you heard about it and what do you think of this approach?

Thanks again, I can say that you have changed my outlook at fasting in an unmeasurable way!!!!!! Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 16:49 #4693 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Thanks!
Thanks for the very valid remarks, Guy.

1. How blood "looks" for "food" is simply a matter of the organs needing energy (for example) will make enzymes that break down other tissues to release the energy in their substance. Thus if a cell, any cell, needs energy and finds no or deficient blood sugar, it would typically produce a protease (enzyme that breaks down protein) then "wait" for the protein breakdown product (mainly blood sugar) to show up in the blood. If however the cells were "pre-programmed" to make lipases (for example by having eaten fat) then they would secrete these into the blood and "wait" for fat breakdown products to arrive in the serum.

2. The Fast-5.. well, yes, I've heard of it but do not understand its rationale. Sticking rigidly to predetermined figures like 5 hours appears to negate the variance in our biorhytms and activities.

Good to have you here, interesting points you raise!

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 17:38 #4694 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: good information!
Thanks for the description of the process, very interesting. The body doesn't stop to impress me with all of it's processess. It is to be highly respected.

I tend to agree with you about the fast-5, without being a fad diet it feels like something one has to fight against to keep going. I can't see our cave ancestors saying 'Ok honey, we can't eat yet the sun is still up'. I like to say that you can drive a nail into the wall with a wrench, it will do the job, but a hammer is more natural, it was designed for it. So on the long term water fasting might be more natural and healthy. Also I find their way you don't learn what your body is, you force it and it adapts, and it might rebel eventually! I find water fasting is a beautifull experience to get to know our nature, and then you get health benefits from it as a bonus!

I found one audio interview of you on the internet:
www.voiceamerica.com/voiceamerica/vepisode.aspx?aid=38089
Do you know of any other?

Maybe one question, which has to do about getting back to work in two weeks. On my first 'inexperienced' fast last year I got up really fast and got dizzy and blacked out for an instant. Later I got on the internet and found out that on the 3rd day to the 4th, the body changes it's way of nutrition, and that this was to be expected. My question is can blackout/dizzyness happen again during the fasting process or is it a one time event occuring at the beginning of the fast?

Thanks again for all the information. I feel more confident in the process and will be able to explain it to my incredelous friends (of course if they ask me, I don't preach my life decisions!)

Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 21:13 #4696 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:good information!
Thank you for the note.. I was unaware that the interview was still on the Net..

The dizzyness you describe fits the common phenomenon "postural hypotension" which all of us can get. You are perhaps a bit more subsceptible while fasting simply because there are more chemicals in the blood that could reduce the blood vessels' response speed.

How this works: A split second before you get up, your brain knows you're going to get up. So it sends messages to the blood vessels in your legs informing them of the upcoming event. In response, these blood vessels tone up, so that the blood can get up "with you" instead of falling down into the large blood vessels in the legs. If this message or the reaction is a bit slow, you literally get up "out of your blood" which stays on the lower level.. then your brain wants to go where the blood is!

I believe the toxins released during the fast makes you more subsceptible.. that's part of where the 5th step of the 5-step elimination cycle comes from.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
24 Jun 2010 21:47 #4698 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: I'll be careful
Thanks for the information!

Our blood is so much more than a simple oxygen carrier!! Respect as they say!

I feel better doing the 5 step cycle, I feel my body more grounded and less slugish, thanks.

I'm looking into the Paleo Diet and the Primal Diet, eating mostly vegan and raw I'm already very close to them, but the major difference is with grains and legumes which they don't agree with, and oh yes, the potato! In the end I think there is no one receipe that fits all, trial and error is the best, and trust that our body knows more than we acknowledge.

Again thanks, you are a great help to me and I'm sure to many many others.

All the best Guy
(if you are curious you can visit my website www.guygiard.fr.fm )

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
25 Jun 2010 11:07 #4699 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Good second night sleep! How to break the fast?
Hello André

I had a great second night sleep:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
It feels great and I feel my energy level stepping up. Got rid of the pillow under my knees, my joints are starting to ackes now, and still used some Chinese Tiger balm, but the back pain was much less sharp, more diffused. So the 5 step cycle is just great! I feel my detox has stepped up due to the cleaning of the skin and the massage, I'm just not sure how or where to massage my insides? (liver, kidney, colon)

On my 15th day I want to break the fast on a big red watermelon, not all of it of course, but this being the season they look so appealing!!! My question is about stomach flora. Should I start with my organic soy plain yogurt with probiotics first and wait a few hours for the melon, or do it reverse, or both together?

Another question, doing 4x7days fast per year which I think you call maintenance, do you get the same benefits as longer fast, since they talk about what happens in the first week, then the second then the third, such as body repair and getting rid of growths?

Thanks again for all the help!!!
Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
27 Jun 2010 08:25 #4702 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Good second night sleep! How to break the fast?
The red watermelon sounds divine.. and you can have a whole one if you wish, just divide it into small portions say an hour or so apart..

Probiotics is always a good idea but not essential if you eat raw food, which mostly contain the necessary. Also if you still have your appendix, this little organ "stores" all the probiotics your gut needs.

Personally I avoid soy products: Soya is NOT a part of our natural diet, it is actually quite toxic raw.

If you fast at least once a week, you can actually consider the next fast a continuation of the previous, which over time gives you at least some of the benefits of a longer fast. But yes, if overt pathology (such as growths) are present, I would also opt for a well supervised longer fast, though not beyond 40 days at a time.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
28 Jun 2010 15:35 #4707 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Re: Good second night sleep! How to break the fast?
Hello André

Thanks again for all the information! I look forward to the watermelon, organic if I can find it!

Last night I had the best sleep for a long time, even before fasting, with no backaches whatsoever to speak of!!! Quite amazing. Your recommandation makes so much sense, like the other posting I find of yours, like how would the starving/fasting caveman find food if he became lethargic! The human race, and other animals, would have become extinct a long while ago if so! A good fast doesn't mean no activity therefore.

I've added dry brushing to your 5-step detox, which I do every morning, and as my last thing before going to bed activity.

I've also resume my strenght training (20 minutes per week, High Intensity) and I just bought a 'rebounder' to add some cardio to my routine. I've been wanting to do some more active physical activity, but most activities (apart from swimming) adds strain to the joints and ligaments, which in the long run can be detrimental, not counting the injuries... Rebounding, or a small trempoline, is something quite recent but is used for reeducation, which is always a good sign of a non-harming technique. They also mention a lot of positive effects for the lymphatic system.

I feel, reading your commentaries, that if I tell my body that I am here and ready and available by doing the exercises it will find the nutrients in the body to make it happen. I still have some fat left, I can see it in the mirror, maybe another 15 pounds, but with my backache gone, and the 5-step cycle I feel my body is processing the waste really efficently, resulting in more energy available!

My question now is should I go into a third week right now? For now I go day by day, and I had a 2 week pause from work, but next week I'm back for the full week. I work with kids at a daycamp at a museum, so no heavy equipment or car to drive, (but I don't want to scare the kids if suddenly I feel weak) Today I feel energetic and clear headed and wonder if this the next step. I also don't have any known pathology, so I'm more in general prevention mode. I also know myself that I am an eager beaver, I like to go all the way, but maybe there is no point for me to accelerate the process right now. Maybe I should just stop after my 2 weeks (this thursday) and try to instore my one day a week fast? You write If you fast at least once a week, you can actually consider the next fast a continuation of the previous, which over time gives you at least some of the benefits of a longer fast. I'm not sure how this works since the stomach is then fonctional and the body wouldn't look inside itself for nutrition? So what do you feel about this, 2 weeks now and 3 weeks later, or 3 weeks now? I know this is not a medical question, but I would appreciate your feelings about this.

As far as soy goes, I feel there is as much controversy and misinformation as there is for milk. I haven't read any good books on this issue for now (I like to always base my life decisions on scientific things I researched, and not from 'what they say'. So for now I'm going back to my vegan/vegetarian/raw books to prepare my next step coming out of this fast. If you have any links or books or research about soy I would appreciate.

Thanks again for what you are contributing to my life, and other people's life through this website.

Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
28 Jun 2010 15:49 #4708 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Good second night sleep! How to break the fast?
Dry brushing is ideed an IDEAL second step, as it does exactly what massage does: Get the toxins into the skin in anticipation of elimination. If you want to more finely define steps, it would fit in between steps 2 and three, where massage mobilize the toxins out of the tissues and dry brushing would move them more specifically into the skin. Good hint, may I use it?

If you feel and function well, there's no reason not to go into the third week.. but since you are not all that experienced in longer fasts it could be "safer" to rather do another 2 weeks after this camp.. although it would have been interesting to see the kids' response if you told them you haven't eaten for almost 3 weeks! Not sure their parents will be happy, some will think you need a shrink..

Safest without hands on evaluation is definitely what you recommend, switch over to your weekly routine now.

The enzymes needed to break down fat remains available for about 10 to 14 days after a decent fast, which simply makes the "switch" that much easier. It's not about the stomach in the first place.

I'll see if I can find any objective info on soy, perhaps I am prejudiced simply because I don't like it.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
28 Jun 2010 16:07 #4709 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Re: Good second night sleep! How to break the fast?
Thanks for the fast reply!

Yes please insert the brush in your routine, keep the name though 5-step sounds nicer then 6 (laugh!)

I'm happy I asked your opinion. Being an eager beaver I kind of forget the social stigmas around the subject of fasting. True the kids would really find it fascinating (already if I mention I don't drink milk or eat meat they become google eyed!) but the parents and my boss could freak out. I guess it's part of the job, being responsible for young children and so on, I have to take them into account. Oh well, thanks for reminding of my social responsabilities! (but I love my job, I've being working at the museum for 15 years now, totaaly wonderfull workin with kids, keeps the mind young!!!)

Thanks for the enzymes clarification!

Have a nice day (or evening, I think you are in Africa somewhere?)
Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
29 Jun 2010 11:08 #4713 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Ideal weight?
Hello Andre

I'm nearing the end of my second fast, and I'm wondering what would be considered a 'normal' weight for me. I understand this is very relative, but I am curious.

I'm 1m80 tall 5'10''. My starting weight for this fast was 80kg (175 pounds) and now I'm about 70kg (155 pounds). My body type is not the slim type, neither the bulky wide shoulders type, but lets say I'm 3/4's there. So what do you think?

What I strive towards is to have a well developed body, meaning a good muscle mass, not for show but strong. So after the end of this fast I expect to put on some weight.

I will continue the 5-step detox cycle after the fast. Actually I'm surprised that this is not part of a daily ritual, like brushing our teeths every morning and evening. I mean we never stop processing food everyday, wherever it's provenance. I don't understand why it should be done only when we fast when we eat everyday!!!

Thanks again
Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
29 Jun 2010 15:36 #4714 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Growling stomach???
Hello André

I have one more question, my stomach started growling today, which it hasn't done since the beginning of the fast???? Is it psychological because I know I will break my fast thursday, or is it just another side effect of fasting? Actually I feel hungry, or more to the point I feel my stomach, but I don't think so much hunger, I might be salivating more....

Thanks for your comment!
Guy

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
29 Jun 2010 17:22 #4716 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Growling stomach???
I'm working on a piece of equipment that will measure body volume in addition to weight, so we can calculate your density.. this will be the most accurate way of determining the individual's ideal weight. But for now, I'd like to suggest you consider not "correct" or "ideal" weight, as these do not exist.. rather decide what is your "happy weight" (A term I learned from a nurse who once worked for me.. thanks Margie!). It is likely that summer and winter happy weights might be different and oh, there are so many biorhythms to consider!

I agree for optimal health we should all do the 5 steps every day.. since the last step is rest, this could be the way to end the day. My experience from patient feedback is that it gives them a better quality sleep also.

The growling stomach could be from excess salivation (bear in mind saliva contains proteins) but it could also be that it has just toned up so much that it needs to find a new happy size. But to be honest, I have come across this a lot and there seems to be no common denominator. Thus accept it is unlikely to be satisfactorily explained.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
30 Jun 2010 11:14 #4720 by guy the artist
guy the artist replied the topic: Re: Growling stomach???
Hello André
Thanks again for the feedback

I agree with nurse Angie. We tend to focus to much on definitive events, but life teaches us otherwise. After living in Europe for a few years I started to make appointments by saying meet you around two o'clock as opposed to at two o'clock. I will let my happy weight be as it comes and goes.

I think fasting suffers from the same stigma. It's seen as weird, dangerous, a chore, something ominous, that's sad. I look at Hoogland and I say, yes that makes sense, it's a time for pampering and embracing our body. And I will add that fasting should be something shared with friends and family as a joyous event, something that should be celebrated communaly (of course I'm dreaming here but why not). Anyway fasting should be fun, which is why I'm adding the picture of my bouncing on the mini-trempoline!!!


Here I am boucing around, enjoying fasting :silly:

Tomorrow I will be rewarding myself with the watermelon! I've reached my goal (without knowing I had one) of getting from 175 to 155 pounds. I'm researching my next step, looking into Intermittent Fasting/Fast-5/Warrior Diet/EatStopEat approch which all basically say the same thing but with some small variations. I also want to get more legumes in my diet (beans and seeds).

My new goal, beside bouncing aroung for my cardio! is to bulk up. I have this book of Vegan Bodybuilding and will learn from it. And my longer term goal is to re-educate my eyes and get rid of my glasses, but that's another story :lol:

Thanks again
Guy
Attachments:

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.327 seconds