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Juice or solids?

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31 Aug 2007 04:21 #143 by Jordan
Jordan created the topic: Juice or solids?
Hi,

When I use food I have been only putting pure juice (Juicer) or solid fruits and veggies into my body since February 2007. Sometimes I eat chocolate (cocoa) for fun but not often. I also used nuts for a while but don't want them anymore. My thought is that when eating; pure juice would be the best. Q? If done this way would the stomach still be used? Or would the liquid sort of bypass through the stomach straight into the lower gut? Also using just the pure liquid I would feel you can take in more high quality per quantity of food substance then could be normally taken in via solid food chewed. Comments?

Jordan OHara, PSP

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11 Sep 2007 22:06 #144 by david
david replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Hi,

This is really a very interesting topic, and I look forward to receiving more posts on this subject.

Personally I have started to fast on water during the day and fruit and vegetable juices evenings. If I drink the juices very slowly i.e. with a teaspoon the results are very satisfying, and I don't experience the usual hunger pangs associated with evening 'tummy' idleness. This practice still requires some discipline, but not as much as if I were to drink juice throughout the day or carry out irregular short 2-3 day water fasts.

I am still experimenting with this liquid diet, as I am looking for a health system which I can carry out for long periods successfully. The alternative would be a two day a week water fast.

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

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21 Oct 2007 18:58 #177 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Yes the stomach is still used.. bear in mind that even fruit juice contains protein and protein needs acid digenstion. Juices spend about half an hour in the stomach where the proteases (enzymes digesting protein) work on it, before it can move to the small intestine. True, pancretic juices secreted into the intestine does continue protein digestion, so theoretically you can live without the stomach.. as proven by so many people on \"PPI\" drugs (Proton pump inhibitors) where the stomach is effectively neutralized.

The only drawback to a juice diet is psychological: Most people need a form of \"oral satisfaction\" by chewing or sucking.. that's one big reason why some adults, not having been properly satisfied with breast feeding as babies, find it necessary to continue sucking on something (eg. smoking) as adults.

Bear in mind food is mostly juice by the time it reaches the stomach.. so by juicing everything you mostly just give the mouth a continuous holiday. If you have adequate maturity and internal security not to be dependant on the act of physical oral gratification, then you don't need to smoke.. or chew!

Our ancestors (and the baboons often visiting the place where I live) tend(ed) to chew and eat all day long, in order to supply all the necessary nutrients from food. Pre-juicing with a machine squeezes this effort into a few minutes, freeing up your day to....live!

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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14 Mar 2011 01:18 #6162 by annapcholka
annapcholka replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Dear Andre,
I have been on a juice diet for a while. I was juicing grapes all the time. Felt myself great. I didnt feel like drinking other juices as i got used to the amount of sugar i got. I was also looking great as i detoxified my body a lot. What can you tell about staing at the same fruit. Will you drain on certain nutriens or body can survive perfectly well on one fruit as it takes all its sugar?

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14 Mar 2011 05:17 - 14 Mar 2011 05:18 #6163 by GreenJuice
GreenJuice replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Here is my take before the doctor can answer
I do not juice fruits, I prefer to eat them whole. I juice greens and sometimes carrots. I eat soft fruits such as kiwis that turn into juices by the team they reach the stomach. I juice a lot of greens. Fruit juice turn into sugar easily

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14 Mar 2011 08:07 #6168 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Dear Anna, as long as you feel good, you're likely on the right track but without examining you unfortunately I cannot be more specific. I do agree with GreenJuice that it's better to eat the whole fruit but if you juice the whole fruit it saves you a bit of time. The end result is practically the same.

Ideally your body process one food at a time. Before humans invented regrigerators and forms of storage, we would typically eat what's in season and very often only one food per meal. This helped the digestive system make appropriate digestive enzymes and typically process the meal better.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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16 Mar 2011 02:58 #6223 by annapcholka
annapcholka replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Its an honor, Andre to hear your opinion on this.
Ive been trying to adopt low fat raw vegan diet for half a year. I kept breaking the diet, because i was not really in tune with my body. I still lived by standard diet while i was eating fruit: i counted cals, i thought about nutriens and finally i did have emotional eating .Though i quited already dry fruit and nuts.In fact, i hardly ever experienced true hunger.
Then i just felt myself cloged up, really exausted of eating hard on fruit to get all that cals,then training hard, in order to help my body to digest all that stuff. I decided to go on 3 weeks juice feast. I started with veggies and carried on with fruit. I finished with grapes and tomatoes. I FELT JUST IN HEAVEN. I knew how much my body needed, when and what. In fact i just craved sugar, water and salt. I started looking fabulous. I exerciced very smartly. I was so in tune with my body. My mind started, all of a sudden, seeing things in an mazing way. That was just increadible experience. What i noticed is that thare was no barrier between my soul and my body, mind. I even started feeling people better. All the material stuff started showing less value for me. I realised that nature, people your love to people, your pure , kind heart - this is happiness. AND IT IS ALL FOR FREE!!!! Everybody can have it.
So, time went by, my universaty started (i was studing linguistic)
I really got disconnected from my body....Unfortunatelly , people who surrounded me was not that beautifull nature i was surrounded by in summer.In fact, we had hardly anything in common.They were living absolutely the oposite way than me. I started craving for some fuel for my soul. I had less and less time on my diet, sport...i didnt sleep enough (we have a lot of homework)So i started have hunger for solid food. I guess that was emotional hunger or my body just gave me the signal that it was extremelly unbalanced. So , when i munched on fruit i noticed some things:Firstly, I couldnt get satiated by fruit as i did on juice and secondly, i lost that pure mind feeling. Like i got distructed by eating.
How could you comment on that dear Anre? Id love to have the opinion about body mind soul connection and eating solids.(fruit)Later i tried salad with avocado. That was a disaster for me. After eating 1 avocado even the way i saw things chsnged. I started having fogginess in my mind like i was druged up.
In contrast with that, I really felt in heaven when i was juicing.....Its like my body all the time was trying to get back to its oroginal state when It was shrinking after fruit overload.

Andre, all of your thoughts are highly appreciated. I truely respect your proffesion and Im also planning to get education in naturapathy this year. This is my dream to become really knowledgeable about natural hygiene and then share all that knowledge with people.
Looking forward to your reply.
Best wishes,
Anna

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19 Mar 2011 22:59 - 19 Mar 2011 23:20 #6327 by GreenJuice
GreenJuice replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
I am interested in what the Doctor has to said on your experience. I also follow a liquidarian diet with green juices, and fruits and weekly day of dry fasting. It is working well so far. What may be the possible problems in the long run.

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20 Mar 2011 01:23 - 20 Mar 2011 01:28 #6330 by Jordan
Jordan replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Dear GreenJuice,
In response to your question about possible problems in the long run. Answer: No problems normally should ever arrive from this lifestyle as it should remove any problems. On the contrary the liquid diet of vegetables is almost as beneficial as water fasting since the body is released from most of it's resources intensive digestive work as it completes a house cleaning of dead or damaged cells and foreign material which we call toxins and recycles much of it into proteins to make new cells.
Myself I generally do not take in fruits when I'm on a liquid fast. I only use fruits when I'm eating solid foods. Also it's recommended by many fasting experts not to mix fruit juice with vegetable juices.

For my juicing I keep it simple - carrots + apples diluted. I add some dark greens every couple days. (apple juice is a fruit that can be safely mixed with vegetables juices)

Juice fasting and water fasting go hand and hand:
For longer fasts (15 - 40 days)I recommend starting with juice fasting and then when the digestive system is very clean switch to water. I find there is much less toxic load released into the blood this way. Dry fasting can always be part of any fast - just listen to your body if it's thirsty drink. Finally always include dry brushing and intermittent hot / cold showers during any fasting. This allows the skin (the biggest detox organ) to better release junk and keeps the skin young looking.

Cheers,
Jordan O'Hara, CTP,PSP

Jordan OHara, PSP
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20 Mar 2011 05:36 - 20 Mar 2011 05:39 #6339 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Dear Anna, you might have an avocado allergy. Do check the post I just wrote on the allergy-addiction cycle.

A few point need to be reiterated:

1. "Juice fast" is in my opinion a contradiction of terms. The only difference between a liquid diet and a solid one is that a machine, instead of your teeth, did the mechanical breakdown of the food.

2. Having a machine chew your food means that the first digestive step (alkaline digestion in the mouth and gullet) is partly bypassed. This is not a major concern for most people/food combinations but is less metabolically effective than using our natural liquidiser, the teeth.

3. I have found that a FATTY meal prior to a fast helps guide your metabolism towards fat in anticipation of the fast that follows. The traditional wisdom of having juice before a fast tends to guide the metabolism towards carbohydrate. Since proteins release carbohydrate when catabolized, such an "entry" to the fast would bring your muscles and organ protein into the "firing line".

4. Nourishment is but one function of eating. You also eat to "nourish your friendships", enjoy certain occasions, to experience variety, etcetera. Thus it is not wrong to have "wrong" food from time to time. If you feel guilty about this, you tend to enjoy it less. Thus you get less satisfaction from it. Thus you need more of the same. This seems to have happened to you.

By having the week cycle of fasting and feasting (see the cyclical diet described several times on these forums and in "Health Won") you provide a specific, limited opportunity to relieve your built up desires, and you eliminate the toxins (real or perceived) within a few hours after ingesting them.

Be your own best friend and accept variety in your lifestyle: "They" say it's the spice of life!

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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20 Mar 2011 07:22 #6341 by GreenJuice
GreenJuice replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Thank you Jordan for the info, very encouraging.

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20 Mar 2011 07:34 #6342 by Jordan
Jordan replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Dear André,
Regarding Point 1 about "Juice fast".
You may know I was previously under the strong opionion that juice fasting or liquidarianism diet should indeed not be called fasting. However, after reading many more books since I've last posted here on this forum I recently changed my opinion on the mater.

I'd like to quote Dr. Paavo Airola, Ph.D., N.D. and get your opinion on it please.

"The proponents of water fast like to tell you that the juice fast is not a fast, it is a liquid diet. They misunderstand the theraeutic meaning of fasting. Any condition when your body is encouraged to initiate the process of autolysis, or self-digestion, is fasting. During juice fasting, when no solid foods, proteins or fats are consumed, your body will decompose and burn all the diseased and inferior protein and fat tissues, just as it does during the water fast".

Of course I'm still investigating this but there seems to be good evidence that juice fasting initiates the bodies fasting mode.

Sincerely,
Jordan

Jordan OHara, PSP

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20 Mar 2011 08:37 #6343 by Mystic
Mystic replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
That sounds promising Jorden. I am doing alot of juice fasting this year with fruit and really do feel it's helping alot. Perhaps slower then water fasting but without the harsh side effects.

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20 Mar 2011 10:32 #6345 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Please bear in mind the reason why a fruit diet - whether chewed by the teeth or a machine - cause you to experience less symptoms is because it slows the release of toxins from your cells. Actually, if you have enough, you might not release any more toxins than on your normal diet, as you would not go catabolic if you supply all your energy from external sources.

A fruit diet is still so much better than the junk people eat out there in the "real world". Not as potent as a fast but at least there's a lot of benefits indeed.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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20 Mar 2011 16:45 #6346 by GreenJuice
GreenJuice replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Digestion takes so much energy from the body that a juice feast or a liquid diet cannot be equated to a solid food diet. It takes probably hours to digest a meal of baked carrots and potatoes while it will take at most 30 minutes on a juice of carrots and potatoes. After digesting the juice, the body has time to get into a fasting mode. That is a huge difference so it make sense to call a juice feast a a juice fast.

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21 Mar 2011 08:13 - 21 Mar 2011 08:21 #6354 by Jordan
Jordan replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
GreenJuice,
Your right the liquid diet is assimilated very fast into the blood with little effort needed by the stomach and intestinal system. I believe getting any food out as fast as possible is best.

One part of your comment flagged my safety senses. You mention the juice of potatoes - I'm sure you don't but just in case please do not juice raw potatoes; in raw form they contain high levels of solanine and proteinase inhibitors. By juicing allot of potatoes you could possibly obtain levels high enough to do serious harm to your life.

It is not talked about very often but plants use several strategies to defend against damage caused by herbivores. Many plants produce allelochemicals, that influence the behavior, growth, or survival of herbivores. These chemical defenses can act as repellents or toxins to herbivores, or reduce plant digestibility. While most plant defenses are directed against insects, other defenses have evolved that are aimed at vertebrate herbivores, such as birds and mammals.

Our body has powerful detox capabilities to normally deal with many plant toxins - however, some plants have toxin levels too high to eat raw or juice.

These are some of the reasons why I am experimenting now with 1 day juice fasting / 1 day water fasting / 1 day juice. I think it should prove to be a great new and more exciting fasting routine.

Juice fasting truly is great and I love it! But the sad truth is there is not one food on earth that does not cause damage to our cells. I've researched every food there is hoping to find one food, but all of them have toxins. So when all is said and done what I found is we need to eat much less if we want to live longer and feel great; this is achievable by perfecting our skills of juice fasting and water fasting. This will allow the body to achieve it's primary goal - to keep the protoplasm area of our cells clean of toxic metabolic waist so that the functions of life may continue undisrupted.

As the saying goes - Great truths are of often the simple ones.

Jordan OHara, PSP

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21 Mar 2011 09:45 #6357 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
It actually takes 10 to 24 hours or even more, dear GreenJuice to digest any meal. Bear in mind that digestion has several phases:

1. Alkaline digestion (mouth to stomach, a few seconds to up to 20 minutes or more)
2. Acid digestion (Stomach, 30 minutes to 2 hours, even more for well cooked meat)
3. Alkaline digestion (Duodenum, Jejenum, Ileum, up to 24 hours even for raw foods) and
4. Microbiological digestion and re-syntehsization (Colon, 6 hours to several days if you are sluggish).

Having things chewed by machines instead of the natural way (the teeth) would only speed up the PASSAGE THROUGH the first and to some extent second step, which might hinder (by bypassing) rather than help the completion of the processes needed.

I share your concern Jordan, regarding raw potatoes, although we do sometimes prepare raw potato salads. Small volumes of solanine, like small volumes of many other toxins can be stimulating to the cellular processes. The danger of juicing potatoes is that you would overwhelm the defenses with large volumes.

You are also quite right, Jordan, that all foods are toxic: There's not a single one, even when juiced, that you can infuse into your blood stream and still survive. Your mesenterial glands and liver has to detoxify and re-synthesize everything you eat before it can safely pass into your blood. That's why fasting helps you heal when you are ill: It relieves your immune system from this burden, allowing it to use all available resources in fighting disease.

I still maintain that if you ingest ANY TASTE, you are not fasting, but you are on a (limited) diet.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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10 Feb 2012 20:45 #9941 by dj siva
dj siva replied the topic: Re:Juice or solids?
Dear Anna, it was nice to read your post.

It is pretty amazing to read about your clarity of mind and euphoria while on the juice diet.

I think when the intestines and colon is clean, the body is able to absorb not only the nutrients in the juice but also the "sun energy" contained in it as well.

Do any of you know of any good books or websites that talk about the cosmic energy of a fruit or juice diet? Do you know of any fruitarian yogi's?

I think that a fruit/juice diet would be good if one takes daily warm water enemas as well. This is because I was once on a sugarcane juice and mango diet for 23 days in which I lost 23 pounds. However, by the end, I had a bowel movement only once every 3 days. Therefore, the fruit that I was eating was likely fermenting in the intestines and colon. This can give rise to yeast, mold, and fungus in the body, from what I have read.

On another note, I think such diets are good for cleansing the chakras and initiating a flow of cosmic energy through the body. This is likely why you felt so great on the juice diet.

However, I think that ultimately we need to do some kind of regular water fasting like alternate day water fasting. I have noticed that this gives the same kind of mental clarity you described.

It is interesting to note that geniuses like Steve Jobs were once fruitarian. And it was when they were fruitarian that they got their best ideas!

I think ultimately we need to cleanse our body and mind continuously thereby decreasing the amount of gross energy we obtain from food and rely more on the cosmic energy through pulsating chakras!

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