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I am thin will fasting make me fat?

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18 Feb 2013 12:54 #15418 by david
david created the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
In recent days the topic of weather fasting can cause people of normal weight to become overweight after a short to medium length water fast and fall into the habit of yoyo eating in order to lose extra pounds of fat gained post fast.

The main reason this to happen are as follows:

1. After the fast food tastes so much better that one has a tendency to eat more than usual.

2. During a fast the body gets a chance to clean out the intestines from old debris which oftentimes impedes the assimilation of nutrients. After the fast food assimilation increases unbeknownst to the faster. The remedy would be to reduce food intake as less food is required as the body can assimilate food more efficiently.

3. A fast of short to medium duration probably 4+ days could lead to the body interpreting the fast as starvation which in turn triggers the body to go into survival mode. This mode will cause the body to prioritise turning food to fat to ensure survival during lean periods and it may also slow down one's metabolic rate to optimise energy conservation. This is a very ancient mechanism which is hard wired into our DNA and central nervous system from millions of years of hunter gatherer lifestyle. There is nothing wrong with this per se but it is advisable to get a handle on this mechanism so that one can better manage the pre and post fast protocol. For example The Fast Doctor recommends entering a fast after eating a hearty & fatty meal as this indicates to the body that it is not entering a fast from scarceness of food.

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19 Feb 2013 10:59 #15420 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
Very valid observations David. But do note that

1. If food tastes better or more potently, your senses are more quickly satisfied. Thus you should actually be eating less, provided you eat MINDFULLY.

A large group of studies have found that people typically over-eat for just one meal after a fast. Such over-eating is about 20%, thus less than what you "skipped" the previous day. But the better taste (very valid observation) also serves to satisfy the "hunger" a lot quicker if you just discipline the rate of eating.

2. It is very difficult to determine whether you absorb more nutrients after a fast. It may actually be less, because the rested gut can move its content through more quickly than one clogged up by old residues and is tired of moving. If things move more quickly there's less time to absorb unnecessary nutrients.

3. We need to be careful to attribute all such changes to the fast. These may be there IN SPITE of the fast rather than BECAUSE of it. In the real world out there people would typically only fast once they are really desperate, unlike us who know it as a part of life.

We cannot really meaningfully change our metabolism rate. The bulk of your metabolism goes into maintaining body temperature, circulating your blood and keeping your brain alive. None of these things stop before we die.

The bit that the metabolism rate may drop, on the other hand, is a bonus: Slower metabolism means slower aging. We have a certain "volume of metabolism" available for a lifetime, thus if you use it slower it lasts longer.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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19 Feb 2013 11:07 #15421 by david
david replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
Thank you Doctor I do like the emphasis placed on MINDFULNESS entire books have been dedicated to that subject alone.

If you don't mind what are your thoughts on the starvation response (where turning food to fat is prioritised) being hard wired into DNA I noticed that you didn't comment on that part?

Very much appreciated.

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19 Feb 2013 12:54 #15422 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
Indeed there's a huge movement in Psychology revolving around mindfulness.

Thank you for pointing out my omission David. Apologies for that.

It is NOT only during "starvation" that the production of fat is prioritized. Since our ancestors regularly experienced periods of famine, they had to make fat at every single opportunity, so as to have maximal reserves available when the next famine happened. Thus ALL excess available energy tends to be converted to fat.

Incidentally, the female of our species is considerably better at this process than the male. The logic is that, should a tribe be decimated in a famine, it needs as many of its females to survive as possible, in order to reproduce the tribe. Actually, the sooner some males died, the longer the scarce food would last. Then, once the famine is over, a fertility boom happened. Monogamy was not our ancestral priority!

We have inherited genes (DNA) that make us super efficient at making fat and protected these stores once formed. Fasting simply imitates the circumstances for which these genes originally evolved/were designed for.

André

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19 Feb 2013 12:55 #15423 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
Very Cool topic.

In terms of slower metabolissm im not really sure i want that since there is alot that goes against it and alot that goes for it.

The worst thing about slow metbolissm is that you gain weight ezy. That for me is not a good thing. Feels like when metabolissm is slow its in survival mode and not thriving mode? since when the body knows there is enough food around it doesnt have to store fat/energy on the body?

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19 Feb 2013 13:59 #15424 by david
david replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?

We have inherited genes (DNA) that make us super efficient at making fat and protected these stores once formed. Fasting simply imitates the circumstances for which these genes originally evolved/were designed for.


Doctor thanks for your excellent explanation would you go as far as to say that fasting for the debutant could 'activate' these genes? Or put differently are these genes 'dormant' in some people and 'awake' in others?

Superhuman I like the way you define 'thriving mode' it does appear that the gene responsible for identifying thriving and survival needs an upgrade so it can better differentiate between our opulent thriving lifestyle and the times when we are out of pocket and can only afford a supermarket trip once every other week. And also that it functions like a fuse. Once the fuse is blown there is no going back. But don't forget the perk though, a slow metabolism can add a decade or more to your lifespan ;)

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19 Feb 2013 14:17 #15425 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
But a slower metabolissm isnt a good thing if it only makes you survive longer and not thrive. I rather have 70 years where i love life and have all the energy i want then 100 years of just enough energy but not really alot and not that much of energy.

I know people are doing feeding regimens to loose fat and make the body trust you that food is plentifull. They tend to feed people more calories then they need just to make sure they have enough energy and they have them eat 5-6 meals a day at the same time everyday so that the body knows its getting energy at the exact same times everyday and then starts to trust and let go of all the stored energy since food is plentifull.

Whats your thoughts on this?

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19 Feb 2013 14:31 #15426 by david
david replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
interesting do you know what this diet is called? Your ideas are valid so long as the extra fat put on by a slow metabolism does not enter the obese threshold. Otherwise a little extra fat could be a good buffer and asset especially if you have to move furniture about.

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19 Feb 2013 15:46 #15427 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
True but i dont want that buffer since it slows me down when it comes to other stuff.

www.billycraig.co.uk/blog.html

That is the blog/page of the guy and the "diet" if you can call it that

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20 Feb 2013 12:28 #15433 by david
david replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
There is more to this than meets the eye so I have to read through the whole blog and was hoping to grasp it with a quick glance. Thanks for the link.

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20 Feb 2013 13:39 #15434 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
Cool, tell me what you think

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21 Feb 2013 09:59 #15451 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
Indeed David the genes that are activated by fasting include those necessary to convert fat to ketones so that we can get energy from them. If you never use these genes, the DNA where they are coded becomes "sticky" and difficult to "unwind". You need to "unwind" DNA before the genes are exposed. The genes then produce enzymes that takes the processes further.

Superhuman, remember that through fasting your ANABOLISM might drop a bit but at the same time your CATABOLISM becomes active. Thus although your anabolism rate may be say only 75% if you fast regularly, your catablolism may then be 50% active so that you have 125% the metabolism rate of people who never fast. This is a very rough approximation of course...

And a slow metabolism, dear David, by slowing the aging process, adds QUALITY to the extra years in your life.

Will take a look at the blog but be careful when there's no scientifically verified references.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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21 Feb 2013 14:07 #15460 by david
david replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?

Superhuman, remember that through fasting your ANABOLISM might drop a bit but at the same time your CATABOLISM becomes active. Thus although your anabolism rate may be say only 75% if you fast regularly, your catablolism may then be 50% active so that you have 125% the metabolism rate of people who never fast. This is a very rough approximation of course...


But the above would only apply during the period of a fast once in ketosis. This would imply that the fast would have to be longer than 2-3 days and how long would the increased catabolic state stay active or partially active after the fast?

Thank you :)

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21 Feb 2013 14:50 #15464 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: I am thin will fasting make me fat?
Thin people, dear David, as well as we who fast often, goes ketotic within less than one day on a fast. And if a regular faster enters the fast from a fatty meal ketones are formed almost straight away. How long it stays active depends on numerous factors such as the exact diet after the fast. I know of some cases where they keep it (ketosis) active permanently by following a high fat, low carbohydrate and low protein diet, forcing the body into ketosis. Not advisable for most adults, but works like a charm on kids with cellular membrane hyper-irritability problems like Epilepsy.

André

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