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Hypothyroidism

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25 Aug 2010 22:23 - 25 Aug 2010 22:24 #5007 by carolineq
carolineq created the topic: Hypothyroidism
Well, my TSH was 94 in February, 23 in April, and now it's 16.5. I really thought it would have dropped into the normal range.

I do feel that in the last weeks I've had a loss of energy and a need for sleep that in the last months, is unnusual. I do wonder if it has anything to do with my overindulgances.

I want to fast again hard core and I also want to get my amalgams out of my mouth. I think I must have 8-10 fillings and I want them removed.

Any guidance on whether the thyroid might be driven into a hypoactive state by acute (in the last month) overindulgance?

Thank you!

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25 Aug 2010 23:18 - 25 Aug 2010 23:32 #5008 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
if my TSH is elevated and my T3 and T4 are normal, would I need to do anything?

I'm just really confused and it's possible that my thyroid may be undergoing attack by an autoantibody that I tested positive for so it's possible that this will continue throughout my life. I guess the main goal should simply be to keep the inflammation low.

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26 Aug 2010 00:53 - 26 Aug 2010 00:56 #5012 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
I would not bother about the amalgams if I were you. The work to get them removed will release ten times more Mercury that they would release themselves in a lifetime. Actually, we typically inhale and eat (if you do eat fish) more mercury in a day than a full set of amalgams release in a year. They are best left alone.

If your overindulgence (as you call it) included the eating of processed animal bodies then yes, you would likely have eaten thyroid tissue (these are used to bulk up meat) and this could have triggered antibodies. I really suggest you remain strictly vegetarian if you wish to avoid this.

Elevated TSH with normal T3 and T4 indicates that the thyroid can produce enough hormone but only when it is seriously over-stimulated. I would consider giving it a holiday by taking a full dose of T4 (Thyroxine) for a few weeks, then wean off to see if the rest allowed it to regenerate.. but once again in the absence of any animal body substances in the diet.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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26 Aug 2010 02:58 - 26 Aug 2010 03:00 #5017 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
Thank you so much, Andre! I will definitely go on medication if a short serious fast doesn't offer any remedy. Here's my plan:

1) schedule appt. with a primary care physician whom my ob/gyn recommended and see if he will draw the other levels, T3/T4 and TRH. (sad that my OB/GYN actually recommended these but I waved them by with an idle hand thinking my TSH by this point would most assuredly be in the normal range)...

2) start fasting tomorrow morning and forget the 15 miler... I'll fast for 3 weeks... I really really want this ... and if I have to forfeit ahead of time, fine!

3) if by the time I get my appt and results back, the levels are wacky, I'll go on the med... but if they are looking, OK, I may see what this fast and a vegetarian diet can do for me.

4) proceed with monthly checks on TSH.

5) Give up, dare I say, milk! I drink at least 2 gallons a week... it may be my nemesis... and as for other animal products, I'm guessing the recommendation to become a strict vegetarian rules out dairy and eggs?

THANK YOU SO MUCH! It's so odd that I really don't FEEL like I have hypothyroidism... it's more than anything the lab abnormality that is worrisome and my perception that this would be the beginning of the end if I go on meds at 37!

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26 Aug 2010 09:37 #5019 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
I'm with you..

Just remember, after the fast, to check the TSH before you consider taking any replacement therapy. And keep a diary, including the lab results. We might consider publishing these in a medical journal, trying to get started in educating the medical profession also!

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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26 Aug 2010 15:58 - 26 Aug 2010 16:47 #5020 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
OK, I'm definitely into the fast now... Thanks for providing the added incentive!!!! Day 1!

Interesting link consistent with idea that diet is linked and meat especially can lead to molecular mimicry...

www.all-creatures.org/mfz/health-thyroid-20090118.html

pretty uninformative other than the line about diet-induced cause related to mechanism of molecular mimicry.

Didn't know this about meat --- that neck trimmings could trigger the reactions if allowed to enter the meat grinding process.

www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198704163161605

in the following link, animals were fed raw meat diets and those that did not gain weight normally, had the greatest changes in the gland size...I have consumed 5000 kcals for several days without output of this energy and have not gained the weight... just wondering if there might be a correlation...Often throughout my life, weight gain has been slow (two weeks of heavy consumption is necessary before the gain begins). Anyway...

chestofbooks.com/health/nutrition/Diseas...athyroid-Glands.html

and a comment about gluten... God, I never wanted to be one to worry about this... but hey, why not? The more one reads about causes of Hypothyroidism, the more one realizes everything causes it... so why eat anything?! At least for a while, do something that doesn't cause inflammation --> fast!

thehealthyskeptic.org/the-gluten-thyroid-connection

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27 Aug 2010 02:55 #5022 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
3 hours away from the 24 threshold... the next 5 are always the hardest but made it past 20 so I'm g2g (good to go).

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28 Aug 2010 01:07 #5026 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
So my last snack was 43 hours ago. As I read more and more on the topic of hypothyroidism, I really do want to try supplementation with selenium and iodine, if only to aid in my thyroid health. During my last long fast, I've craved salt like crazy. I am just trying to figure this all out and if a non-taste supplement might help rather than hurt, I am happy to do it.

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28 Aug 2010 05:08 #5029 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
I do hope you had a fatty snack when entering the fast.. this helps stimulate fat catabolism in anticipation of needing this during the fast. But however you started, at this stage you are most likely fully catabolic.

Be VERY careful with these "supplements". Taking too much Iodine can CAUSE hypothyroidism: The Hypothalamus interprets iodine as being part of thyroid hormones and if there's more in the blood, it will suppress the thyroid activity.

I never take supplements.. well, about 5 Zinc tablets over the past 20 odd years..

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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28 Aug 2010 15:09 - 28 Aug 2010 15:17 #5030 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
Thank you, once again, Andre!

Everything I eat has fat in it, but not overly much! I probably should have eaten more fat, but was so disgusted by my thyroid news that I just wanted to eat anything I felt like before going to bed and starting the next morning.

I guess I can refrain from supplementation for now! It's like what's three more odd weeks of no supplementation. I didn't take prenatals during my second pregancy or lactation period and stopped supplementing during my first lactation period... so it's truly believable to me that part of this could be iodine deficiency... but I'm also attacking my gland since I tested positive for one of the antibodies. My first child was born in April, 2007. The second in June, 2009.

So an update - I have been exhausted this time going into it. I lie down, no feelings of restlessness, just pure muscle exhaustion with no exertion. I think if one tested my T3 at this point it would give a low reading. Recall, my T3 was in the normal range even though my TSH was 93 in Feb, 2010. Sooo, based on my current feelings throughout the month of August, I would just say I bet my overeating and overconsumption of meats and starches really kicked me back into an autoimmune attack.

But hey, today I woke up and after sitting there for fifteen or so minutes, my heart started working a little faster, like something (adrenals or thyroid) is kicking in. I've read on some sites (Marc's Daily Apple) that you gotta get your adrenals right first and then the thyroid starts back up again. Well, fasting kicks the adrenals into action for sure with all the stress hormone that gets released during the perceived starvation period. Marc of Marc's Daily Apple actually proposes that perhaps for longevity purposes, hypothyroidism isn't bad as it slows the heart down and may theoretically increase lifespan by slowing metabolism. You should see the onslought of comments he got for making suggestions not to treat.

Doctors recommend treating if symptomatic and lab results normal or asymptomatic and lab results abnormal. YOu can't have it both ways. You either have it or you don't. Regarding this disease, it seems many feel undertreated and many report (potentially a placebo effect) feeling fantastic with treatment.

When I found out my TSH was 16.5, immediately, I felt like I was out of steam again. Was that reality biting? Perhaps. Or perhaps it too was me pausing at the possibility.

By day 5 of my 8.5 day fast, I started feeling better, had boundless energy, and needed only 4 hours of sleep. I'm getting 9-10 hours at this point and am still slow on waking. THough last night, I guess I got 7.5 so there's a slight improvement.

I wonder about what will happen if my TSH is already magnitudes higher than it should be, and my thyroid wakes up. I will be hyperthyroid which matches my perception of my last fasting experience save, I didn't really feel hypermetabolic. My heart wasn't pounding. I'm hoping for the best here and won't stop until 10 days pass. My goal is 21 days of this! I do believe that will bring me into the skinny zone, but I've been 136 lb's before with a very muscular physique, so I'm sure I'll still have more fat on me than I did when I was the running machine I once was.

My heart rate last night was 54 per minute. It really hasn't changed much since.

Starting weight 57 hours ago: 159.5 lbs.
Current weight: 154.5 lbs.

I was 155.0 lbs yesterday morning so I lost the typical 4-5 pounds of water weight within 36 hours.

Today, I'm forcing myself to workout and start my elimination cycles.

Thanks for following!

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29 Aug 2010 16:15 - 29 Aug 2010 16:20 #5031 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
Ran six miles yesterday. I had run the same course the previous week and felt I could turn out double the distance, but this is not unexpected on a fast. My waking weight today is 152 lbs.

Researching the idea that I was on Reglan to help keep up my lactation for 3 months with first post-partum period. Had problems with weekend withdrawal... would feel anxious after two - three days of not taking it and realized it was the drug...invading my thought processes. Didn't even really need it to be honest... had produced exactly what my daughter needed, but was paranoid on returning to work that the supply would not be adequate... it did drop from 24 oz. per day pumping during work to 20 oz per day, but that should have been OK... doctor was eager to prescribe and I was eager to keep the supply up. With second child, supply was almost double what it should have been. Produced between 50-60 oz at first during work hours alone (no Reglan).

I ceased my breastfeeding in February, 2010 upon learning about my super elevated TSH. Didn't want my child to get hyperthyroid because of the increased TSH in the milk. Even after NOT breastfeeding for several months (7), I am still able to express white milk out of one. Not much, but a little. So I'm just wondering if that could be related.

I just want my old body back. I feel like I have the physiqe, but not the other things. I used to have a lot more hair on my arms, eyebrows, and even well, outer perimeter of my nipples (had to pluck). These things that I once perceived as problems are no longer... but I oddly miss them as they were potentially a sign of well-being.

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29 Aug 2010 20:25 #5033 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
The possible connection, dear Carolineq, between your TSH and producing milk, is that both TSH and Prolactin is produced in the pituitary (hypophysis) gland. If this gland enlarge for one reason (underactive thyroid) it sometimes "takes the other parts with it" causing a generalized hyperactivity in this gland.

It would be academically very interesting to measure your prolactin levels and get an MRI scan of your hypophysis.

Meanwhile, repeated episodes of fasting might help.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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30 Aug 2010 15:41 - 30 Aug 2010 16:05 #5036 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
4.5 days into it (effectively 3.5 days after consideration of first day). Sooo, I dyed my hair last night with the bad chemicals and even after washing the poison off, I smelled it all night. I frankly got tired of looking in the mirror and seeing the unruliness of my grays. Plus, I have a conference at the end of the month where I'm going to want to look my best and it was only $10 versus say $100 if I opted for highlights. I doubt I did that much damage to my detox, but probably did add a few chemicals to the mix, but theoretically since I'm fasting, my body is breaking down the fat rather than storing stuff in it... Will do elimination cycle shortly.

WOke up at 150 lbs, with clothes, so prolly at 149 lbs. Have sensation of muscle consumption - sounds stupid - but my calf muscles always twitch at various locations when I think I'm in a state of muscle wasting. Need to work out - did not yesterday.

Was pained by a hip adductor all the way through the run and through most of Saturday. Woke up yesterday and the pain was gone. No pain at all all day. Must be the curative phase kicking in. I was afraid I was going to put myself in a long recovery phase. But apparently not.

Had lots of energy yesterday, moreso from late afternoon on. THis is finally resembling my last fast. The first few days of this one frankly exhausted me. I slept pretty terribly last night. Restless feeling returning. COnclusion is that no exercise is very bad. Need to hop on that stairmaster before kids away.

Urine was very yellow/orange yesterday and Saturday. I didn't feel thirsty, but it was. There was also a bit of foam that no longer is the case.

Cravings coming back, not cravings, but on exposure to food, I feel the urge to partake in its consumption. It's just a reflex I'm controlling though. I find myself cooking more and wanting to be around food just for the vicarious thrill, but I do have to be around it anyway.

Looked at my old TSH readings - had to dig them out of some stuff I'm intending to organize at some point when I have the time so that's why I hadn't so far. The following is what I found:

2005 TSH: 3.0
2008 TSH: 4.0 (8 weeks pregnant)
2009 TSH: 4.6 (2-3 trimesters into the pregnancy)
2010 TSH: 94 (8 months postpartum)
2010 TSH: 23 (10-11 months postpartum)
2010 TSH: 16.5 (14 months postpartum, after a few short fasts, and during one major period of "overconsumption of starches, fastfood, candy, and meat)

I am thinking my pituitary is a bit enlarged... prolly based on TSH and the lactation. I lost so much weight while eating so much food during the first three months of my postpartum this time that I bet my was overstimilating and then tuckered out, but who knows, that could have been the lack of sleep, the lactation output, it's just so hard to say... I do recall hopping off the scale several times though and thinking, WHAT, do I have cancer? How could I have lost another three pounds in one day. Anyway, pregnancy can wreak havoc on the body. My mom said she was hypothyroid after birthing 3 children in 3 years so ... it's not obviously a homeostatic state for the body, pregnancy.

My thoughts on the TSH of 2005, I was prolly hypo then but the thinking then, was that 5 is the upper limit of normal so I was fine. I was prolly just starting to have issues. I was exercising then, but also eating PLENTY of fast food. The fast food phase continued all the way up until recently when I found out I was seriously at risk for going on lifelong thyroid replacement therapy. I began eating more of it when I started working out more and getting false sense that I was fine.

Color and size of mammary tissue is still returning back to normal so I imagine that once that transition is made, I will be fine. I do think this could be a markedly slow return from postpartum thyroiditis, that is impeeded by my heavily burdensome diet and will only improve with fasting. I won't push for MRI yet but in time, if this continues, I can't see argument against it.

Thanks for following. Have an awesome day!

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31 Aug 2010 14:36 - 31 Aug 2010 14:41 #5046 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
132 hours since last meal - doesn't sound so long really. Feel fine. At times hard to sleep, more sleep interruptions, restlessness. Yesterday felt very out of it until I went for a walk. Questions the toxicity of the hair dye during my walk. Urine no longer dark and frothy. That stopped after day 2-3. Thirst not very strong.

Morning weight 149lbs.

Hoping for improvements in orthostatic hypotension, dizziness on standing. I recall this got better further into the fast last time, curious about mechanism.

No changes obvious, maybe slight in size of furuncle, and arm fold cyst. I'd like to fast until the cyst goes away this time because it seems the cyst grew larger after cessation of the fast, like a cancer might after being initially reduced by chemo.

SPeaking of chemo, I have begun to wonder if one of the key mechanisms is stripping the gut and inducing nausea to disuade dietary intake and absorption of food... if so, that is the same mechanism of fasting. Again, I'm stating it might be an overlap of mechanism, but chemo certainly employs multiple mechanisms, including placebo effect.

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01 Sep 2010 08:40 - 01 Sep 2010 08:42 #5058 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
Wow, today was tough! The stress at work combind with little opportunity to exercise really combined to offer lots of back pain and weakness. I vaguely recall feeling much better after reaching day 7 and certainly after starting a routine of exercise. I am going to get up early tomorrow and do that. In just sitting on the floor and doing some floor exercises to keep my quads from feeling so restless, I have experienced a surge of energy. I was so exhausted this evening that I just crashed in the bed only to find I couldn't sleep.

The exercise is crucial to mobilizing fat so you have sufficient energy for hours thereafter. I find each time I exercise, I feel so much better, probably due to fat mobilization. I can smell something coming out of my pours. It smells like fat byproduct. Anyway, sounds unnusual, but I am an observant person and can smell things and sense things sometimes others can not. Am I wrong smetimes? Oh yes.

I have got to work out during this fast... it's my only hope in avoiding misery. With workouts, I feel fabulous. Without them, I feel like I am scraping by, leaning over counters, walking slowly, and just really struggling.

I used some of that residual energy to investigate the studies in rodents and learned that IF is actually superior in some measures to caloric restriction. So this has to become a way of life for me.

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01 Sep 2010 17:15 #5060 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
147 lbs on waking from my starting weight of 159 lbs since starting 154 hours ago.

I have a long way to go! I am becoming more and more tempted by foods, but much less so than before during my 8.5 day food restriction period. I think it's just sheer determination to make this a longer fast that is limiting the temptations.

Ten days will be Saturday. I don't feel any cravings for any particular foods, though when it's in my face, of course, I would want to indulge.

Going to drink more water to combat the dizziness on standing today. Pee volume was prolly anywhere from 0.8 to 1 liter for the day... is that bad? I didn't measure it... maybe I will... I'm not the type to shy away from scientific assessment just because of a notion of gross...

Still smell that fat smell coming out of my pours... have noticed this even when fasting after working out for 2 hours on the stairmaster.

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03 Sep 2010 14:37 - 03 Sep 2010 14:44 #5078 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
146 pounds... not much active fasting. Put three spoonfulls of food in my mouth yesterday to taste the food that everyone was eating and then privately spit it out and washed my mouth out several times... I don't want to stop ketosis. This should be a time when Growth Hormone levels are rising sharply so that is really a good time for my body to heal from all the prior damage...

My armfold nodule might be shrinking...day 2 of perception of this... but only in height rather than diameter. I don't feel this is a misconception on my part. None of the other skin growths are doing much.

Active fasting - going for a jog for a few minutes to kcikstart my day and throw some coal into the furnace.

New development - dizzy spells disappearing and gaining more strength. I suspect the hormonal profile I have now is contributing all of this. That's why stopping now would just be ludicrous. For 36 hours, I have felt ALAS so much better.

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04 Sep 2010 13:53 #5081 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
Broke fast last night (it was not for a valid reason), but I am restarting today. I had salad, beans, corn, cashews and macadamia nuts... At least I didn't eat sweets, nuts, or processed foods. I did also have some cheese. I was satiated within three hours of eating and did consume probably 2000 kcals. I hope to restart today and continue the fast.

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07 Sep 2010 06:28 #5086 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
3 days off of the fast... back on now. I will go for another 9 days and if I eat again, I will eat for 3, then fast for another six. My TSH will be drawn on 24Sep. Significant shrinkage in my armfold cyst occurred after resumption of eating... same think with the last 8.5 day fast. Want to go for at least 9 days, and then and only then, if I need a break will I eat for 3. I felt so freakin' strong after eating for only 12 hours I can't believe how 12 hours put the glycogen back in my muscles... I could have easily churned out 15 miles Saturday.

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02 Oct 2010 17:02 #5136 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Hypothyroidism
Last result was 13.5 with free thyroxine in the normal range, which explains why I'm not feeling symptoms of hypothyroidism because well, I'm no longer hypothyroid and it's possible it's just taking time for the TSH to come back down. It had been 16.5 a month prior and 23 in May. Soooo, I think the fasting is working and will continue to due one week plus fasts each month as I have found that is the cycle that works best for me.

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