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Fasting for athletic performance?

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13 Jun 2011 12:26 #7694 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

cory wrote: Well by the sounds of it you have a similar goal to me image-wise as I want to get to a low body fat and some muscles just not as much as weightlifters have.

The main difference is your doing it to be better in a sport well I just doing it for myself.

No idea what fat percentage I currently am, as I don't have a six pack yet but the calculator on the internet puts me between 7 and 8% which I don't believe as you normally see all your abs by then.

So I am not trying to cure any disease or anything but I am sure a lot of other people who regularly fast are doing it mainly to lose fat.

Hopefully my dry rotation will work but who knows until you try. If something doesn't work for you try something else and no idea I will have to keep it up for.


True, im just worried that it will slow down my metabolissm since calorie restriction want work in terms of weight loss since it seems like your body is holding on to everything much harder

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13 Jun 2011 13:48 #7696 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Well I have been slowly losing weight quite well in my fasting apart from the past month as I actually wanted to gain a bit or maintain my weight as I lost a lot in my long fast and that my weight is now in the ideal range for my height.

But fasting is the easiest way to lose weight unlike dieting what almost kills your metabolic rate and after a month or so it gets harder and harder to lose anything.

By fasting your body forced to burn fat as it is the main resource you got and for short fasts it actually help increase your metabolic rate a bit, while in longer fasts as long as your careful when you can get back to normal eating you don't need to gain too much back.

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13 Jun 2011 18:09 #7709 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Apparently, there is no change in metabolic rate if the fast is 72 hours or less, which means you keep burning body fast at your normal metabolic rate.

"A high meal frequency does not boost your metabolism, nor does fasting or a low frequency slow it down either. The latter has been shown quite clearly when researchers made people fast for 72 hours and found no difference in metabolic rate at the 12 hour mark, compared to the 72 hour mark. That’s three days without food, yet all subjects retained a fully intact metabolic rate. There are other studies looking at one meal a day and alternate day fasting that does not find an impact on metabolism either.

Some studies have actually found that fasting boosts metabolic rate slightly during the initial 36 hours - this is supposedly an evolutionary response, mediated by norepinephrine, as the body mobilizes extra energy when food is scarce. You can imagine it would be highly counterproductive to mister caveman if he found himself slow and lethargic when he needed to find food in order to not starve to death."

The studies referenced in this excerpt:

Zauner C, Schneeweiss B, Kranz A, Madl C, Ratheiser K, Kramer L, Roth E, Schneider B, Lenz K. Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased as a result of an increase in serum norepinephrine. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Jun;71(6):1511-5.

Webber J, Macdonald IA. The cardiovascular, metabolic and hormonal changes accompanying acute starvation in men and women. British journal of nutrition 1994; 71:437-447.
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14 Jun 2011 01:20 #7729 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

cory wrote: Well I have been slowly losing weight quite well in my fasting apart from the past month as I actually wanted to gain a bit or maintain my weight as I lost a lot in my long fast and that my weight is now in the ideal range for my height.

But fasting is the easiest way to lose weight unlike dieting what almost kills your metabolic rate and after a month or so it gets harder and harder to lose anything.

By fasting your body forced to burn fat as it is the main resource you got and for short fasts it actually help increase your metabolic rate a bit, while in longer fasts as long as your careful when you can get back to normal eating you don't need to gain too much back.


Thank you. Makes sense :)

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14 Jun 2011 01:22 #7730 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

Esmée La Fleur wrote: Apparently, there is no change in metabolic rate if the fast is 72 hours or less, which means you keep burning body fast at your normal metabolic rate.

"A high meal frequency does not boost your metabolism, nor does fasting or a low frequency slow it down either. The latter has been shown quite clearly when researchers made people fast for 72 hours and found no difference in metabolic rate at the 12 hour mark, compared to the 72 hour mark. That’s three days without food, yet all subjects retained a fully intact metabolic rate. There are other studies looking at one meal a day and alternate day fasting that does not find an impact on metabolism either.

Some studies have actually found that fasting boosts metabolic rate slightly during the initial 36 hours - this is supposedly an evolutionary response, mediated by norepinephrine, as the body mobilizes extra energy when food is scarce. You can imagine it would be highly counterproductive to mister caveman if he found himself slow and lethargic when he needed to find food in order to not starve to death."

The studies referenced in this excerpt:

Zauner C, Schneeweiss B, Kranz A, Madl C, Ratheiser K, Kramer L, Roth E, Schneider B, Lenz K. Resting energy expenditure in short-term starvation is increased as a result of an increase in serum norepinephrine. Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Jun;71(6):1511-5.

Webber J, Macdonald IA. The cardiovascular, metabolic and hormonal changes accompanying acute starvation in men and women. British journal of nutrition 1994; 71:437-447.



Thanx a ton. Im gonna do 36 hour dry fasts for sure after my cycles of training with means once a week i will do it. In terms of meals i really like smaller meals because i can eat often and not so big meals. I feel alot better and i just feel more energized aswell all the time :) i love it.

Thanx again for introducing me to this website. Lovely :)

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14 Jun 2011 03:19 #7738 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
cory or others do you have any idea how much fat you are loosing on a 36hour dry fast?

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14 Jun 2011 03:57 #7740 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
36-hour increment is not significant enough for me to spend money on testing body fat changes. I am set to do another 7-day dry fast starting June 25th. I will be undergoing hydrostatic body fat testing before and after to measure the precentage of fat lost in one week of dry fast.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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14 Jun 2011 04:12 #7741 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

Milena wrote: 36-hour increment is not significant enough for me to spend money on testing body fat changes. I am set to do another 7-day dry fast starting June 25th. I will be undergoing hydrostatic body fat testing before and after to measure the precentage of fat lost in one week of dry fast.


Wow that is fantastic, cant wait to hear how it goes. Also you should include your preprogram like the pre 2-3 days before you start the fast if you do the citric acid in water and walnuts like Filinov does or just go plain into dry fast. Will be cool to watch what happends and how much fat you will be loosing.

How much fat do you think will be lost in 36 hours?

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14 Jun 2011 05:58 #7743 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
I really have no clue. Sometimes I lose 2 lbs of overall weight in 24 hours, other times I lose 5 lbs of overall weight in 24 hours. I am sure most of it is water weight those since ketosis does not kick in until at least 24 hours after dry fast. You do not lose much fat in 36 hours, it happens cumulatively as you consistently fast for weeks after weeks.

The only way to lose any significant weight in one setting is when you do a long fast. At least 5 days, but then about 40% of it it comes back. I lost 44 lbs during my 40-days fast and regained between 15 - 20 lbs back, depending if I retain water or not it fluctuates.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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14 Jun 2011 07:19 #7745 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Saying that you don't lose significant weight during short fasts is true but I was slowly losing just fat weight and even gaining some muscle while doing short weekly fasts just the fat burning is a lot slower so if your goal is get muscle or maintain your weight you would probable just fast one or two days a week and vary your calories depending on that.

Otherwise if you want more fat loss medium/long fasts are better but there might interfere with your daily activities depending on the length.

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14 Jun 2011 13:54 #7749 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

cory wrote: Saying that you don't lose significant weight during short fasts is true but I was slowly losing just fat weight and even gaining some muscle while doing short weekly fasts just the fat burning is a lot slower so if your goal is get muscle or maintain your weight you would probable just fast one or two days a week and vary your calories depending on that.

Otherwise if you want more fat loss medium/long fasts are better but there might interfere with your daily activities depending on the length.


true, thanx :D

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14 Jun 2011 18:29 #7753 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
But also then.. what is 36 hours dry fast good for ?

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15 Jun 2011 03:04 #7763 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Short fasts gets you into ketosis for a few hours and by doing short fasts weekly your body slowly goes into ketosis faster.

There reduce your weekly calories down by say one day i.e. 14% so you will slowly lose weight if you eat normally, also there known to increase your growth hormone so your more likely to gain muscle and there are lots of other health benefits.

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15 Jun 2011 03:27 #7766 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Great points Cory.

Ib addition, if you fast for 36 hours twice a week it is like not eating for 3 days out of a week. It helps your body to get rid of the toxins you accumulate in none fasting days as well. And if you have done longer fast, they help you to maintain your accomplishments from that fast.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Jun 2011 05:53 #7771 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Studies on rats have found that short intermittent fasting is more effective than calorie restriction (while eating everyday) in controlling glucose regulation and insulin sensitivity of the cells.

Rats who were fasted for three days and then exposed to cancer cells had a much lower incidence of tumor development as rats who were fasted during exposure to cancer cells or who were fast after exposure to cancer cells. (from Filonov's book) So short term periodic fasting helps to prime the immunie system to go after the abnormal cells that we constantly create.

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15 Jun 2011 07:59 #7774 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Great information! I also got an article from a friend tonight that talks about study on rats and intermittent fasting in relationship to longevity. I will post the summary and link on the forum tomorrow.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Jun 2011 12:39 #7778 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

cory wrote: Short fasts gets you into ketosis for a few hours and by doing short fasts weekly your body slowly goes into ketosis faster.

There reduce your weekly calories down by say one day i.e. 14% so you will slowly lose weight if you eat normally, also there known to increase your growth hormone so your more likely to gain muscle and there are lots of other health benefits.


great.. thanx :D

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15 Jun 2011 12:42 #7779 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

Milena wrote: Great information! I also got an article from a friend tonight that talks about study on rats and intermittent fasting in relationship to longevity. I will post the summary and link on the forum tomorrow.


ive heard about that in terms of using cats and CR. The problems i have with those studies are 2 things.

1. They are done on rats and we are not rats.

2. They never talk about optimal and thriving. Sure maybe it does make you liver longer but does it make you liver better? more energy? more thrive to do all the things you want to do ? thats whats missing and thats why im extreamly sceptical about that kind of stuff. The most important thing is life quality. I would rather live 60 years with full of energy and having a blast then 75 years with alot less energy and thrive.

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15 Jun 2011 20:34 #7783 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Superhuman,

Have you read the interview with Anne Osborne who ate every other day for a year. She THRIVED.

www.fastingconnection.com/index.php?opti...5&id=7595&Itemid=120

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15 Jun 2011 20:52 #7788 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

Esmée La Fleur wrote: Superhuman,

Have you read the interview with Anne Osborne who ate every other day for a year. She THRIVED.

www.fastingconnection.com/index.php?opti...5&id=7595&Itemid=120


I have talked alot with Anne regarding her OJ fasts and all but yeah she says that she thrives but i havent seen it :p like she doesnt do any sports or athletic. But sure i guess she thrives but i dont think she is the right example regarding this topic because she has never done high level activity.

David Wolfe can say he thrives even tho i wouldnt believe him or i would never listen to him. Anne is ofc not in the same league as Wolfe because she is a great example and inspiration but not for me since she doesnt do what i do or want to do :)

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