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Fasting for athletic performance?

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15 Jun 2011 23:20 #7792 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Anne was not a physical athlete, but she was a mental athlete at the time she did this (being in college) and she performed better on all her studies than she had done before. I think that says something about the value of alternate day fasting for her. The best thing for you to do, however, it to try it for yourself and see how it works for you. That is the only way you will every really KNOW anything for sure.

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16 Jun 2011 01:59 #7795 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

Esmée La Fleur wrote: Anne was not a physical athlete, but she was a mental athlete at the time she did this (being in college) and she performed better on all her studies than she had done before. I think that says something about the value of alternate day fasting for her. The best thing for you to do, however, it to try it for yourself and see how it works for you. That is the only way you will every really KNOW anything for sure.


Thank you. I will for sure read the interview and ask her myself aswell :D
thanx again

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12 Jul 2011 20:13 #8348 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Cory, you make some claims about dry fasting in terms of days comparison with water fasting. To what are you referring in terms of the benefit comparison rate.

Caroline

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13 Jul 2011 08:01 #8363 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Well the obvious thing is weight lose as I seem to lose over double the amount while dry fasting compared to water fasting even after re-hydrating, it has decreased now but I am getting quite lean already so I have less fat to burn.

Also a quote translated from Dr. Filonov website about dry fasting;

"Adipose tissue is destroyed very efficiently, and never regains its original volume, it is divided into 3-4 times faster than muscle, because fat tissue more than 90% water and muscle tissue remained relatively intact. Organism from the same water deficit does not suffer and it needs water comes out of adipose tissue. In the dry fasting adipose tissue is burned in exactly 3 times faster than during fasting in the water"

Basically saying how dry fasting burns more fat while keeping most of your muscle intact.

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13 Jul 2011 11:06 #8366 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
yeah that is cool, gonna do that myself :D together with liquid feast :)

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13 Jul 2011 19:26 - 13 Jul 2011 19:27 #8374 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Referring to post by Milena stating deeper ketosis is achieved by dry fafasting as assessed by Ketostix....

Please pardon me, Milena, if you have already addressed this. I would assume that dry fasting does lead you into a more dehydrated state and your conclusion about being deeper into ketosis as measured by Ketostix with the dry fast is not convincing to me mainly because your urine will be more concentrated and thus, the measurement of ketones in the urine will be higher since the denominator (volume) will be lower. Ketosis is a state and one of the factors affecting rate of ketosis is hydration. Onces hydration status would need to remain relatively constant to get a good reliable measurement on rate of ketosis.

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13 Jul 2011 19:38 #8375 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Thank you Cory for the response. I am giving the dry fast a whirl today, watching my urine of course and will monitor thirst. Very interesting thread. I may start on water if I sweat profusely but still will monitor my thirst and urine.

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13 Jul 2011 19:43 - 13 Jul 2011 19:45 #8376 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

cory wrote: Also a quote translated from Dr. Filonov website about dry fasting;

"Adipose tissue is destroyed very efficiently, and never regains its original volume, it is divided into 3-4 times faster than muscle, because fat tissue more than 90% water and muscle tissue remained relatively intact. Organism from the same water deficit does not suffer and it needs water comes out of adipose tissue. In the dry fasting adipose tissue is burned in exactly 3 times faster than during fasting in the water"


I found this article on-line - btc.montana.edu/Olympics/nutrition/eat02.html , which says that "Because muscle tissue is 70-75% water, the body weights of lean, muscular athletes may exceed 70% water. Inadequate fluid intake will have powerful negative effects on all three of these tissues (blood, brain, and muscle.) In contrast, fat tissue is only 10% water."

Michael Arnstein, an ultra runner ( www.TheFruitarian.com ), gets over 70% body water reading and 2-5% body fat reading on his Tanita scale. When you look at him - you can tell that he is all muscle.


So, I think Dr. Filonov's statement about muscle being 90% water is highly debatable.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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13 Jul 2011 20:09 - 13 Jul 2011 20:10 #8378 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
I'm very glad you pointed this out Yuliya. I was ready to march forth in my dry fast... still will do so, but I'm just not so sure how fat catabolism was assessed to be three times greater than with the water fast. I just want to know more about the methods and if there are discrepencies in Dr. F's claims elsewhere, I'm happy to tag it in my mind at least as an unfounded claim.

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13 Jul 2011 21:07 #8381 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?

Yuliya wrote:
So, I think Dr. Filonov's statement about muscle being 90% water is highly debatable.


Sorry for the typo, I meant to say Dr. Filonov's statement about FAT being 90% water, of course.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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13 Jul 2011 21:11 #8382 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Well by the end of my dry fast my urine is still a similar color so even with my exercises I don't believe I get dehydrated.

Hopefully this part is true at least "Adipose tissue is destroyed very efficiently, and never regains its original volume, it is divided into 3-4 times faster than muscle" maybe he wrote it wrong or google translate may have messed up the translation would have to ask Milena as I don't know Russian.

Btw Yuliya your first link is broken.

I personally don't like taking most things on the internet at face value but if it works for me I will continue to do it, as my dry fast rotation seems to be working for me not sure if there's a better fat burning method out there somewhere.

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14 Jul 2011 01:17 #8385 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athetlic performance?
Thanks Cory, this is a valid link - btc.montana.edu/Olympics/nutrition/eat02.html

I don't object that Dry Fasting must be a superior fat burning method as compared to water fasting.
I just question Dr. Filonov's statement that fat is 90% water.

I read the book partially and I didn't like it that much to be honest.
It has a lot of myths in it and at times it's hard to say whether Dr. Filonov believes in them himself as they are mixed with scientific facts. Also the description of samatha meditation (which is simply a tranquility or concentration meditation) is highly exaggerated and reminds more of a science fiction.

So, I personally wouldn't take on faith each one of his statements.

But I do like and practice dry fasting!

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Jul 2011 15:27 #8416 by Marsh
Marsh replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?
I've not been on here for a while, training and all. Also am against dry fasting, but after being sick(both ends...lol) had to dry fast, and apart from the discomfort of being thirsty seemed to help and back on my feet.
Problem with dry fasting, it made me feel weak, normally a drink of water would had helped.
Did dry fasting help with my training? I think it has, and my whole body feels different, somehow, lighter and more defined, even more.

I reckon interspacing wet and dry fasts should be ok, and find that I can ration my fluid levels on very long runs, as I find that a really empty stomach - running on empty, but getting used to dehydration seems to be my next target...

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15 Jul 2011 18:32 #8424 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?
Hey Guys,

Marsh closed his post with "getting used to be dehydrated is my next target"....

That made me wonder.... ARE YOU TRULY DEHYDRATED IN A DRY FAST or is your thirst simply everpresent? From what I've gathered, physiology uses the decreased hydration status (not dehydration, however) to melt the water out of the fat (catabolism of fat) so as to maintain an acceptable hydration state.

I'm thinking Marsh meant to say getting used to thirst...

Thanks!

C

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15 Jul 2011 18:38 #8425 by Marsh
Marsh replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?
I'm not sure, being thirsty is the first stage of dehydration. Getting headaches is telling the body to drink. As I do running, it is important to maintain hydration, even though on long runs I do get dehydrated, which left unchecked does affect my performance. Getting the body used to thirst and mentally/physically keep going.

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15 Jul 2011 18:43 #8426 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?
Well I normally watch for signs of dehydration during my dry fast, not seen any personally as my urine doesn't get too dark during my fasts but it is something to watch out for.

Another thing I only exercise for around an hour a day six days a week (relatively intense hit exercises normally), while March does lots of running I would guess for longer than that so he's more at danger of being dehydrated along with the fact that he was underweight last time he posted his weight having a bmi of around 15 mines currently between 20-21 so I have more reserves to burn as well and others with more fat would rarely need to worry about it.

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15 Jul 2011 18:50 #8427 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?
Hey Marsh, Cory brings up a great point regarding your reserves for hydration via fat... I think you should look out for signs of thirst and drink at that point... you operate on the extremes already imho with respect to your BMI and exercise. Being as such, you are already very in touch with your body and if your body is sending thirst signals, I wouldn't ignore them... I hate handing out advice but my gut is hinting to me that you might not want to prolong a dry fast too much longer after your thirst kicks in!

What are you training for? Marathon?

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15 Jul 2011 20:43 #8433 by Marsh
Marsh replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?
I don't really do dry fasting really. This time I had no choice, being ill :therefore dehydrated.

My training is mainly club runs, track sessions, but 10KM and 1/2's are my forte. At the moment it's the summer series, and also a few half-marathons. Do marathons, but too expensive!

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18 Jul 2011 22:08 #8504 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?

carolineq wrote: That made me wonder.... ARE YOU TRULY DEHYDRATED IN A DRY FAST or is your thirst simply everpresent? From what I've gathered, physiology uses the decreased hydration status (not dehydration, however) to melt the water out of the fat (catabolism of fat) so as to maintain an acceptable hydration state.
C


Caroline,

I think you put it very nicely "decreased hydration status" vs "dehydration." Indead, as long as there is a source of a body to get water from internally to hydrate essential organs, it will function just fine. However, it also means that it will use this resources to supply water only for essential functions, leaving unessential with minimal support. Hence, we get dry mouth. There is no need to support mouth with hydration if it does not consume anything thus does not need much saliva to process food. For that reason, minimal speaking helps a lot to delay experience of dry mouth.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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18 Jul 2011 22:37 - 18 Jul 2011 22:39 #8509 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fasting for athletic performance?
Thank you for your complement. I still wish there were a gold standard for assessment of dehydration. Fasting (dry or wet) will throw off weight, blood pressure, heart rate, etc, so really we are left with quantity and color of urine to determine if we are dehydrated. Whenever I eat after a fast, I put on at least 4 pounds pronto. But that could be because I am consuming salt and tha salt once stored in the tissues (GI, muscle, ect) causes the water to move into the tissues and GI to rehydrate them. Anyway, again, thanks for the complement... still wish there were more reliable ways to assess hydration status. Surely if labs were performed on the fasting body several days into the fast, some of these values (perhaps even electrolytes) would be off.... right Fast Doctor??? Occassionally during a fast, I will develop cramps in my feet at night, but this ironically becomes more intense within 36 hours of my resumption of food intake... odd.

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