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Qualms About 5 Steps

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21 Aug 2012 20:58 #12017 by Ivor
Ivor created the topic: Qualms About 5 Steps
Hi Andre,

I am about 28hrs into my water fast and have a couple of qualms about doing the 5 steps. I wonder if you might comment on them please?
  • Im 41. In my current condition (see below) I can't possibly imagine getting my heart up to 160 without keeling over!
  • I also can't imagine having a cold bath like this. Im so cold!

Also, I just took a long hot bath and 20mins later I am still sweating profusely. Is this normal?

Many thanks!

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21 Aug 2012 23:35 #12018 by Autumn
Autumn replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
I'm unsure if it's appropriate to ask a question on someone else's question but it's relevant.

I read that exercising will cause the body to burn the easiest fuel which is muscle so it should be avoided during fasting.

Is this not the case or is it acceptable in order to get rid of toxins faster?

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22 Aug 2012 03:04 #12020 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
Dear Ivor, I don't quite know what the "current condition" refers to.

The guideline of (200-age) for heart rate is not set in stone. It is kind of a maximum safe rate and should not be maintained for more than a few minutes. All we really need is to generate excess circulation to be available for diversion to the skin during the tonic phase. Really fit people cannot reach this rate, as cannot people for example on beta blocker medication.

If you are still sweating 20 minutes later, you likely did not do a complete cooling phase and/or the heat phase was too short to fully "filter" the blood.

Dear Autumn, I would be interested where you read this thing about "easiest fuel" being muscles.. it is SO easy to write things, you know. When you use your muscles (exercise) it "signals" to the body that muscles are NOT redundant tissues to be used as fuel.. if however you are passive, this is the exact message your body might perceive!

Also, if you do a proper massage step as part of the 5 steps cycle, you divert your "hungry" circulation into the fat to "look for food"..

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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22 Aug 2012 03:17 #12021 by Autumn
Autumn replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
Thank you! And that makes a lot of sense.

I reread and it said to avoid doing exercise that would build muscle because your body might break down muscle tissue so it could get protein to repair. I'm not sure if that is correct either.

Since working out reminds the body that muscles are not obsolete, should I make sure to do something with my arms? I have been rebounding on a mini trampoline and only using my legs usually. Should I do jumping jacks on there or another arm exercise as well?

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22 Aug 2012 05:02 #12022 by Ivor
Ivor replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
Autumn, I certainly don't mind if you ask questions in this thread :)

Andre, thanks for your reply. By current condition I mean a quite weakened state. My muscles feel like they are near total exhaustion. Also, I am very cold. I can't imagine what a cold bath will do to me!

Last night it was only the hot bath I did. I was so weak getting out of it that it took ages to dry myself (partly due to the amount of sweating!) and I had to sit on the edge of the bath cos I just couldnt stand up! It passed, but it was not nice. And a bit scary...

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22 Aug 2012 05:18 #12023 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
No Autumn, your body will not break down muscle to build muscle! There's enough protein in the blood to build as much muscle as you can build in a week or two.. Please give us the reference to who said you should not do muscle building exercise..

The last 2 steps (cold and rest), dear Ivor, is intended mainly to boost your energy (re-route your blood from the skin to the organs) and to stabilize the system.. they are not essential for the detox part, which is completed after the sweat phase. But I advise my patients to stay in the hot phase until they FEEL like doing the cold.. which would prevent the dizzyness/weakness you experience after the hot phase.

BUT please always remember that your biofeedback trumps any theoretical advice. IF it is spontaneous.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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22 Aug 2012 14:16 #12025 by Autumn
Autumn replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
It was in a book called Quick Fasting by Nathanial Bronner Jr:

"Generally you should follow these guidelines:
! You should exercise during a fast.
! You should NOT do any exercise that is muscle build-
ing during a fast.
! You should not do any strenuous exercising during a
fast. Strenuous is relative. A two mile jog is very light and easy to me, I can easily jog a mile or two per day during my fast but that may be very strenuous to some.
! You should keep warm while exercising.
! Walking and stretching are best.
! Fasting is NOT the time to GET IN SHAPE. Use exer-
cise only to keep things moving and circulating."

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22 Aug 2012 16:13 #12026 by Ivor
Ivor replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
I actually did the five steps this morning. I ran up and down the stairs, did squats and press ups -- rubbed all over with a rough towel then got into a very hot bath for 15mins or so. Then had a cold bath for 5mins.

It was okay.

After doing it though I read this:

It is sometimes claimed, completely erroneously in my opinion, that during the fast, it is necessary to keep the bowels, kidneys and skin active to carry away the toxins released into the circulation by the liquidation of tissue. Daily enemas or saline purges are advised to clean the bowels, much water drinking and even diuretics are advised to keep the kidneys active; sweat baths are employed to keep the skin active.

All of these forcing measures are not only unnecessary, they are actually hurtful. There is nothing that so safely and so certainly increases kidney action as the fast itself. The bowels empty themselves during a fast as often as there is a need for them to do so. If no need arises, they take a long-needed rest. The skin is not an eliminating organ and sweat baths are delusions. These measures further
enervate the faster and [ WASTING NERVE ENERGY ]
tend to inhibit rather than accelerate elimination. [ STOPPING THE DETOX ]
These suggested techniques are harmful and should be avoided.


naturalhygienesociety.org/review/0801/shelton-fasting.html

Clearly that's in complete disagreement with the 5 steps, and by a very well respected fasting expert. Comments?

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22 Aug 2012 17:01 #12028 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
First question to ask, dear Ivor, is what kind of RESEARCH and which OBSERVED PHENOMENA led to this advice. It is easy to write but not all that easy to do proper scientific studies to come to a conclusion.

To state that the skin is not an elimination organ is total nonsense and I would not regard as valid anything someone says who said that.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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22 Aug 2012 17:02 #12029 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
Bear in mind there are 3 phases in fasting/natural starvation: Acute, Subacute and Chronic. We have different responses in different phases and enter these phases at different times during the fast.

Be careful, dear Autumn, to accept views that are "categorical" about advice. Some of what Nathanial wrote makes sense, but some not.. and some does not apply to all people under all circumstances.

An inquisitive mind would always ask: WHERE does these principles come from, what research backs it up?

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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22 Aug 2012 18:27 #12031 by Ivor
Ivor replied the topic: Re: Qualms About 5 Steps
Well, this chap has been credited with supervising about 40.000 fasts. I think that makes his writings worth reading. Having said that, he wrote much of this stuff in the sixties so one has to account for that also :)

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