Copyright 2018 - Custom text here
  • fast for a cleanse

  • 2

    fast for a detox

  • 3

    fast for freedom

  • fast for longevity

DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

More
16 Jul 2011 18:56 #8454 by borota
borota replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
Although my main reason for fasting is not weight loss, here's the summary as far as body weight loss goes after 7 days. I am not talking fat loss, haven't measured that.

Average daily weight loss: 2.5 lb (1.1 kg)
Total weight loss: 17.6 lb (7.9 kg)

As one can see, not that much behind dry fasters. One would probably need 2-3 days of extra water fast to equal what people have been reported they have lost on dry fast (around 21 lb). I am giving 2-3 days because my body already shows signs of slowing down on the weight loss chapter.

Based on my own experience, as far as weight loss is concerned, the ratio of 1:3 is highly exaggerated.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
16 Jul 2011 19:03 #8455 by borota
borota replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
Oh, and if you take into account that the dry faster after 7 days of not drinking water, is very highly dehydrated, it may very well be that the amount of fat they have lost is not significantly higher than what the water faster has lost.

Maybe that's why Dr Fast is skeptical that there is much difference between dry and water fast as far as weight loss goes?

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
16 Jul 2011 19:57 #8457 by borota
borota replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
Milena: Question for you.

During your 40 days fast, when you switched from dry to wet, did you body weight go up a little for say 1 or 2 days?

Thanks,
Greg

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 19:55 #8493 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

borota wrote: Oh, and if you take into account that the dry faster after 7 days of not drinking water, is very highly dehydrated, it may very well be that the amount of fat they have lost is not significantly higher than what the water faster has lost.

Maybe that's why Dr Fast is skeptical that there is much difference between dry and water fast as far as weight loss goes?


I would not say that I was highly dehydrated. On the 9th day my urine was still very light yellow and clear and I was full of energy. After all I managed a 1.5 mile hike up the mountain to dip in the water fall and come back down shortly after.

As for the amount of fat, you really need to measure your body fat percentage before and after the fast, not your weight. A person on water fast loses more muscle weight then a person on a dry fast. As you saw in my privious forum posts I lost more % in fat in 9 days on dry fast then I did in 27 days of water fast. That is a fact.

Dr. Fast personally practices regular dry fasting but not for weight loss since he is on a thin side and with a very low body fat percentage. He had stated in the past that dry fasting is more powerful then water fasting. His concern lays with highly toxic and inexperienced people trying dry fasting and hurting themselves. Where is my position is such that a body will not allow one to dry fast beyond safe point, as the discomfort level and even pain will be so powerful that a person will be forced to break their fast by their own body.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 20:09 #8495 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

borota wrote: Milena: Question for you.

During your 40 days fast, when you switched from dry to wet, did you body weight go up a little for say 1 or 2 days?

Thanks,
Greg


Very little. Bellow is the data of my weight fluctuations:

Day 9 - 152 lbs

Dry fast broken between day 9 and 10

Day 10 - 150 lbs

Increase started:

Day 11 - 150.2 lbs - .2 lbs increase

Day 12 - 151.4 lbs - 1.2 lbs increase

Day 13 - 151 - .4 lbs decrease

Day 14 - 150.1 - .9 lbs decrease

The increase of 1.4 lbs was gone in the following 2 days. So as you can see my body was not significantly dehydrated and chose to release these fluids instead of retaining them.

Tonight I will post the difference in body fat percentage loss between 7 days on dry fast vs 7 days on a water fast.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 22:07 #8503 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

Milena wrote:

borota wrote: I lost more % in fat in 9 days on dry fast then I did in 27 days of water fast. That is a fact.


Milena, but the 27 days of water fast were FOLLOWING the 9 days of dry fast, and it's a well established fact, that you loose less and less weight as the fast progresses.

Not that I don't believe that you loose more weight during dry fast, but perhaps most of this additional weight is water weight.


May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.
The following user(s) said Thank You: borota

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 22:35 #8508 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

Yuliya wrote:

Milena wrote:

borota wrote: I lost more % in fat in 9 days on dry fast then I did in 27 days of water fast. That is a fact.


Milena, but the 27 days of water fast were FOLLOWING the 9 days of dry fast, and it's a well established fact, that you loose less and less weight as the fast progresses.

Not that I don't believe that you loose more weight during dry fast, but perhaps most of this additional weight is water weight.


That is why the focus is on percentage of fat rather then weight. I know that I've lost about the same percent of fat in 9 dry days as I did in 27 days on water. I will go back to my notes to night and post the percentage of fat I lost in 7 days of each types of fast. So we could see what the difference was. I wish Greg was measuring his body fat percentage as well, since we have no idea now how much of the weight he lost was a water weight.


May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 22:48 #8511 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

borota wrote: Although my main reason for fasting is not weight loss, here's the summary as far as body weight loss goes after 7 days. I am not talking fat loss, haven't measured that.

Average daily weight loss: 2.5 lb (1.1 kg)
Total weight loss: 17.6 lb (7.9 kg)

As one can see, not that much behind dry fasters. One would probably need 2-3 days of extra water fast to equal what people have been reported they have lost on dry fast (around 21 lb). I am giving 2-3 days because my body already shows signs of slowing down on the weight loss chapter.

Based on my own experience, as far as weight loss is concerned, the ratio of 1:3 is highly exaggerated.


Your experience does not include changes in body fat percentage, which is the key here. Yes, you have lost 17.6 lbs of weight, but how much of it is fat? We do not know.

In order for you to have a valid conclusion YOU have to dry fast for 7 days and water fast for 7 days, measure fat loss and then compare the results. Weight loss on both fasts depends on many individual factors, such as initial weight, age, hydration level, general health, metabolic rate and the list goes on. So the only results you could compare are your personal. Looking at my 7 day dry fast results or Cory's 7 day dry fast results and compare them with your 7 days water fast results would be scientifically unsound. That is why I base my conclusion on my own 7 days on water vs 7 days dry.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 22:52 #8512 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
What we would need to know, dear Milena, is what method was used to determine the fat loss.. If you use the impedance method, this is very much affected by dehydration and can give false results. The standard method is under-water-weighing.

When you fast, you need energy. The energy comes either from carbohydrate, protein or fat. Carbohydrate and protein contain 17 kilojoules per gram, fat contains 35. Thus if you lose very quickly, it is often because you lose protein. When you lose fat, you lose weight at half the rate than when you lose protein.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 23:02 #8514 by borota
borota replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
Even with that is simply NOT CORRECT to compare first week of fasting with the following days after. The body starts to slow down the fat catabolism and starts to conserve as much as it can the energy. In my case on the 7th day those signs of slow down already manifested themselves. Up to that I was losing over 1 kg per day, on the 7 day I went below 1 kg and I stayed below even after introducing detox cycles. You'll probably find this fact about slowed down metabolism on almost any book on fasting.

To put it bluntly the 1:3 ration as far as weight loss goes is simply absurd.

If we add the dehydration factor there isn't much difference body weight-wise. In fact if I am to go by the numbers you posted for Cory and add the dehydration factor I lost MORE body weight in the first 7 days of water fast than he did on both of his 7 days dry fasts.

Again based on what I read, body starts to cannibalize the muscular mass only after about 21 first days of the fast. Dr Fast even report that if people are active GAIN muscular mass on water fasts....

I will be waiting for you weight data and then discuss more.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 23:09 #8515 by david
david replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

When you fast, you need energy. The energy comes either from carbohydrate, protein or fat. Carbohydrate and protein contain 17 kilojoules per gram, fat contains 35. Thus if you lose very quickly, it is often because you lose protein


It would be most interesting to find out which proteins the body catabolizes first.

And what happens to the lymph when the extracellular carbs are used up. Presumably the body will consume the carbs before the proteins.

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 23:20 #8516 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
I use impedance method, however, I have tested my body fat handheld monitor by comparing its results with my hydrostatic body fat results and the difference was .1% not significan one.

Also, I believe, the key in testing body fat is in consistancy with which the test is done, and in monitoring the change. In other words, even if your chosen device might be 2% off, if you take your measurement in the beginning of the fast, then a week later and it shows 5% decrease. It will be 5% decrease, regardless of accuracy of your device.

Yes, I agree that fat provides more energy then carbs and protein. However, you have to remember that during the dry fast you are not only breaking down your fat for evergy but for hydration as well.

The difference between the two fasts is that on one a person consumes water on the other nothing. In general the ketosis on dry fast happens faster then on a water fast, so the person on the dry fast begins to burn through fat faster then on the water fast.

So if both people lost similar amount of weight regardless of the type of fast it means that the one on water fast lost more muscle then the one on dry fast, since the one on water did not need to break down fat to keep hydrated, which would explain why the percentage of fat loss is higher on the dry fast then on the water fast.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
18 Jul 2011 23:58 #8517 by david
david replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
Are we going to go definitive on this one now?

Great minds discuss ideas;
Average minds discuss events;
Small minds discuss people.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Jul 2011 01:21 #8518 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

borota wrote:
To put it bluntly the 1:3 ration as far as weight loss goes is simply absurd.


I don't remember anyone stating that you lose 3x more weight on dry fast as you do on water fast. What we are discussing here is the fact that dry fasting is 3x more powerful, as all the processes your body goes through during the fast are 3x faster on dry fast then on water.

For instance, in general, ketosis begins on dry fast faster then on water fast, healing crisis on dry fast occure faster then on the water fast. Something else I recently read is that during the water fast we wash out toxins with water and with it we wash out electrolites and minerals. This does not happen on dry fast as toxins get burned within cells.

In his book Dr. Filonov discusses how after several years of treating patients with long water fasting (an average of 21 days), he was frustrated by the fact that often times the symptoms would disappear for a while only to reappear again. So he began his search for a more effective form of fasting which led him to dry fasting. That was 20 years ago and since then has been treating people with dry fasting with much better and continuous results then water fasting.

Also, if you are into spiritual and self-realzing effects of fasting, then I may add that what you can accomplish in 7, 9 or 11 days of dry fasting in that regard is far more powerful then 7, 9 and 11 days of water fasting. It take a lot more spiritual strength and faith to dry fast for a long time then to water fast.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Jul 2011 02:39 - 19 Jul 2011 02:41 #8520 by borota
borota replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

Also, if you are into spiritual and self-realzing effects of fasting, then I may add that what you can accomplish in 7, 9 or 11 days of dry fasting in that regard is far more powerful then 7, 9 and 11 days of water fasting. It take a lot more spiritual strength and faith to dry fast for a long time then to water fast.

From a spiritual perspective, if you go 10-11 days with absolute fast (not even water) you are getting into dangerous ground, I think. Because you might be just 1 or 2 days away from dying. In that situation, I wonder if 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' is rather what's applying.
But one could then argue that Moses, for example, went MUCH longer than 11 days with complete fast. But he was in place where he was speaking to God "face to face" so to say.
As far as I can recall from what I've read in the Holy Book, common people never went more than 3 days without water and food. In fact, 3 days was quite usual, it seems.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Jul 2011 03:00 - 19 Jul 2011 03:01 #8521 by borota
borota replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

I wish Greg was measuring his body fat percentage as well, since we have no idea now how much of the weight he lost was a water weight.

I was considering doing that, and looked at various products on Amazon. But for each one of those, there were many people who seemed to be in the know, and were reporting they were as good as worthless... You can see for yourself. In fact I didn't even remember at the time, that I already have a scale at home that's supposed to measure body fat percentage, but I long ago gave up on putting any faith in the results that this device were feeding back to me... It has some metal plates on the side and it says is contra-indicated for people with pacers, etc.

Maybe The Fast Doctor can give us more details in how the underwater weighing should be conducted.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Jul 2011 03:16 #8522 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

borota wrote:

Also, if you are into spiritual and self-realzing effects of fasting, then I may add that what you can accomplish in 7, 9 or 11 days of dry fasting in that regard is far more powerful then 7, 9 and 11 days of water fasting. It take a lot more spiritual strength and faith to dry fast for a long time then to water fast.

From a spiritual perspective, if you go 10-11 days with absolute fast (not even water) you are getting into dangerous ground, I think. Because you might be just 1 or 2 days away from dying. In that situation, I wonder if 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' is rather what's applying.
But one could then argue that Moses, for example, went MUCH longer than 11 days with complete fast. But he was in place where he was speaking to God "face to face" so to say.
As far as I can recall from what I've read in the Holy Book, common people never went more than 3 days without water and food. In fact, 3 days was quite usual, it seems.


When I broke my dry fast after 9 days and 12 hours of absolute fast (no water, no food, no teeth brushing and no showers) I was as far from dying as i am now. In fact, I could have reached 11 days had I not started to swish my mouth with water after my waterfall plunge. That's what got me in trouble and made me feel thirsty. I was full of energy, did not feel any nausea or dizziness at all. So I know that it is possible to reach 11 days safely. In fact I am planning to do that once a year as a disease preventive measure.

Spriritually you feel completely stripped off any pretenses, everything gets placed in a right perspective and you truly feel that if you are able to sustain yourself without water and food for so many days, anything is possible. It is a very empowering experience.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Jul 2011 03:21 #8523 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

borota wrote:

I wish Greg was measuring his body fat percentage as well, since we have no idea now how much of the weight he lost was a water weight.

I was considering doing that, and looked at various products on Amazon. But for each one of those, there were many people who seemed to be in the know, and were reporting they were as good as worthless... You can see for yourself. In fact I didn't even remember at the time, that I already have a scale at home that's supposed to measure body fat percentage, but I long ago gave up on putting any faith in the results that this device were feeding back to me... It has some metal plates on the side and it says is contra-indicated for people with pacers, etc.

Maybe The Fast Doctor can give us more details in how the underwater weighing should be conducted.


I have done hydrostatic body fat test, aka underwater weighing, and it is not something you can do on your own. It requires a special set up and a trained technician to conduct the test, plus a software to do the math. I compared the results to my hand-held device and the difference was .1 percent. The test showed my body fat at 29.5% while my device displayed 29.6%.

The main thing you can be certain about is that once you document the starting point whatever changes it will display will be accurate, even if it doesn ot represent your true body fat percentage.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Jul 2011 05:31 - 19 Jul 2011 05:31 #8525 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING

Milena wrote: Spriritually you feel completely stripped off any pretenses, everything gets placed in a right perspective and you truly feel that if you are able to sustain yourself without water and food for so many days, anything is possible. It is a very empowering experience.


I hear that.

Also it's a lot about proper preparation/training of the mind and body.
Some people need more of it than others.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Jul 2011 09:13 #8528 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: DRY FASTING VS WATER FASTING
Of course you would lose my weight than I would during a fast regardless of it is dry or water as I been regularly fasting/exercising since the start of this year and my body is already relatively lean if you look at my long fast for example I started dry and lost 4-5 pounds a day then gained/maintained weight for the next few days water fasting then lost it at a slower rate after that. Now I only lose around 2 pounds a day dry fasting I am sure if I did a 7 day dry fast last year when I was overweight I would have lost even more than 5 pounds a day if I could do it that is.

Personally don't want to lose weight to fast any more as I don't want to go underweight and my overall goal is to gain weight after getting rid of my belly fat.

Also I read that the electronic devices are less accurate the less fat that you have so I don't really trust them I just go by what I look in the mirror/tape measurements and my wife's comments.

Some religious people have been known to go long periods of absolute fasting personally wouldn't want to go longer than a week to be safe if I didn't do my exercises I am sure I could go quite a bit longer than a week if I wanted to.

The only way to know if something works for you is to try it on yourself as everybody is slightly different, why don't you just do like a 3 day dry fast (so isn't too long a week is difficult to do if you never done one before) and compare it to a 3 day water fast in a previous week I am sure you will lose more in that time.

For body fat I believe the only true accurate way is to get someone else to do it on you to be honest either at a local gym with calipers (inaccurate if you're not trained) or either hydrostatic/ DEXA body fat tests to be even more accurate. You can do home ones if you want just take it the results might not be completely accurate I remember there was a big difference between my body fat on the machine and when it was measured at the gym this was like six years ago I think it was measured at like 18% at the gym but was like 14% on my electronic device cannot remember exactly as was a long time ago.

But normally you can tell if your getting fatter/thinner as your jeans fit better or you need to fasten your belt tighter for example but without professional tests it's hard to be accurate.

Like now I am the leanest I have ever been, my abs are starting to take shape, just not ripped like I personally want. I don't think I can lose more than a few inches of my waist now.

Just found this webpage
forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=31392
By comparing myself to the pictures I would guess I was in the 9-9.9% range.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: Milena
Time to create page: 0.326 seconds