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Fast Supervision!

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31 Aug 2008 10:05 #1203 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
I don't think there's much truth in the \"one day for every year\" idea.. that would mean that my frail mother should fast of 84 days!

PLEASE don't let external factors determine the duration of your fast. It's much better to do regular short fasts to maintain health, rather than one long fast only once in a while. If you exceed your glycogen and fat reserves, you will lose muscle and organ.. including brain. It might be a good idea to have your body composition measured (even if only with a BodyStat) and if there's less than about 7 to 10% fat left, rather build up those reserves again before re-embarking on the process.

You should be willing to break the fast whenever your body tells you to.. don't let a calender make your decisions!

Meanwhile we wish you strength and happiness.

André

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31 Aug 2008 10:58 #1209 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Well of course I'm going to break the fast when my body tells me to. I'm not going to go into starvation mode. If I feel true hunger I will drink juice asap. It's only if I don't feel true hunger will I go that long. I just want to fully beat this depression and I know 1 long fast is so much more powerful than several short fasts. And I have done several short fasts. But I did decide 40 is as long as I'm going to go. I still plan on doing short fasts after this but I read that you should go until you feel true hunger or till you beat or cure whatever it is you're fasting for. And there's no way I am even close to under 10 percent body fat. I definitely had some weight to lose. I do plan on contacting a local fasting doctor and I may go see him this week so I can have everything checked so I have nothing to worry about. Thanks again for your advice Andre.

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31 Aug 2008 15:02 #1211 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Well I read my post and it almost seemed like I came off a little snappy and I was so not trying to come off that way so I sincerely apologize if I did. I think it just came out wrong. Thanks again Andre. Take care, Peace Seeker. :)

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31 Aug 2008 18:46 #1214 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Actually I think it came out quite well, I did not experience it as \"snappy\" at all. But I believe we all feel for you in your depression predicament and would not want you to suffer unnecessarily.
Perhaps you should have a few tests done at this stage to feel safe and to try uncovering an underlying medical problem. I would suggest a blood count, serum viscosity, kidney and liver functions (particularly ALT), Thyroid functions, Vitamin B12, Magnesiium, CRP and IgE. This could just shed more light on a possible contribution from physical factors. It could also show my (medical) colleagues that fasting is safe.
André

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02 Sep 2008 03:18 #1220 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Well I am going to call a couple fasting doctors tomorrow and try to go see one and get everything tested you are talking about. I am curious though wouldn't all those things naturally be lower as well as heart rate and blood pressure? Or would they know the difference because I am fasting?

Oh and about my thirst, I am still having that problem of waking up in my sleep with an extremely dry mouth. I don't know, maybe its because I think I sleep most of the time with my mouth open. But I am not always thirsty in the daytime. I could actually probably go 45 minutes in the sauna without drinking water. I went yesterday with only drinking a couple sips. Should I ask to have anything else tested while I am there? Maybe my electrolytes?

I also am still having gas and actually had quite a bit this morning which I think is crazy since its been 26 days. I was getting a little heartburn at night while lying down but that hasn't happened in a couple days. I take this as my body still telling me to fast.

I will probably know by thursday if I will going past 31 days although I will listen to my body if true hunger comes. But I am sure leaning towards doing 40 days because of the powerful healing affects of going that long.

I am still in a depression and I think my mind may be retracing a little because certain things that were extremely bad in January have came back pretty strong in the last few days and yesterday being the worst so I am hoping this is just part of the healing process. I also think my digestive system may have been so screwed up that my body decided to focus on that first before my brain so I am hoping and praying that I will feel like a million bucks soon.

Peace and Love y'all, Peace Seeker. :)

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02 Sep 2008 08:13 #1221 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Statistically I found ALT actually increase during a fast, likely because the liver is processing more toxins. Other liver enzymes tend to decrease from day 1.

CK (CPK) is another enzyme worth checking. It is primarily present in muslces so if you are actually \"burning\" muscles, this will increase and not decrease. That is why I check in longer fasts and consider aborting if there is a meaningful increase in CK.

If you still have gas, there must be a \"brewery\" in your gut.. something fermenting, or you are swallowing air. To distinguis these, I tend to suggest an intestinal flush with a macroglycol (by mouth); if it clears up this indicates fermentation rather than aerophagia.

You may measure electrolytes if you so wish.. Sodium, Potassium, Calcium, Magnesium and Phosphorus forms part of the profile I recomment.

The heartburn having stopped likely indicate that you no longer produce stomach acid.. but it does seem to have continued for rather long.

It is unusual for depression to last this long. In my experience it typically lifts on day 2-3. Perhaps it would be prudent to see a professional psychotherapist to evaluate for contributory factors.

Wishing you real healing.

André

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02 Sep 2008 10:57 #1222 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Well I don't have aerophagia because I never belch. And fermentation in the gut is one of the reasons I started this fast in the first place and I thought I would be healed by now but obviously it's a big problem. I went and got a colonic done in the beginning of August because I was desperate and was trying to do anything that could possibly help me. She told me I had candida overgrowth and I was hoping it would be gone but obviously its not. Maybe you have some advice that would get rid of it without disrupting the fast. Or maybe a macroglycol would clear it up permanently but I don't really know what that is or where to get it. Could I get something like that at Super Supplements? Is this something that is going to affect my fast? And is a macroglycol something that clears it up permanently or just for the day? What can I do to get rid of it completely? Or will my fast do the trick and it will just take a little more time?

Thanks again for your responses Andre. I really appreciate it.

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02 Sep 2008 11:22 #1223 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Well I don't have aerophagia because I never belch. And fermentation in the gut is one of the reasons I started this fast in the first place and I thought I would be healed by now but obviously it's a big problem. I went and got a colonic done in the beginning of August because I was desperate and was trying to do anything that could possibly help me. She told me I had candida overgrowth and I was hoping it would be gone but obviously its not. Maybe you have some advice that would get rid of it without disrupting the fast. Or maybe a macroglycol would clear it up permanently but I don't really know what that is or where to get it. Could I get something like that at Super Supplements? Is this something that is going to affect my fast? And is a macroglycol something that clears it up permanently or just for the day? What can I do to get rid of it completely? Or will my fast do the trick and it will just take a little more time?

Thanks again for your responses Andre. I really appreciate it.

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02 Sep 2008 11:25 #1224 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
I also think but obviously don't know that because my gut hasn't healed yet is probably the reason my depression is still here. Maybe you've delt with someone else in this situation as well. Have you ever dealt with anyone who has gotten off of Paxil and had horrible problems like me?

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02 Sep 2008 12:05 #1225 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
I also think but obviously don't know that because my gut hasn't healed yet is probably the reason my depression is still here. Maybe you've delt with someone else in this situation as well. Have you ever dealt with anyone who has gotten off of Paxil and had horrible problems like me?

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02 Sep 2008 20:51 #1226 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Thanks for the response. A few remarks:

1. I don't believe Candida albicans causes disease. It is an \"oppurtunist\" which overgrows when something else is wrong: For example, having killed the bacteria with antibiotics, creates a void in which Candida will grow until the normal bacteria takes over again. Blaming this meek fungus for all and sundry misses the point.

2. Colonic irrigation may cause problems such as fermentation because it displaced lower colon organisms into the higher colon; I would not advise it be done.

3. The gut is in constant flux so there is practically never any treatment that causes any permanent effects. Lifestyle (including regular fasting) will be needed to maintain a remission.

4. I don't know what \"super supplements\" is, but I never use \"supplements\", period.

5. Candida is a permanent inhabitant of all people's gut and will always be there. As long as the rest of the colonic flora is OK, it will not be allowed to overgrow.

Your fast may resolve the condition for now but you need to maintain remission by lifestyle and once more I suggest this include regular fasting.. I do 30-70 hours \"on air\" once a week, but recommend you drink water during a fast.

Getting \"off Paxil\" (Paroxetine) can cause rebound depression: After all, your body became used to it. It is very similar and a bit more potent than Prozac (Fluoxetine). I prefer to advise fasting when you are ready to come off but would not stop any antidepressant less than 6 months after it has been considered necessary to be started.

The entire lining of the gut is replaced within a few days so if it is not healed, you have to consider a \"deeper\" disease and might need an investigation such as colonoscopy and biopsy to check for auto-immune disease.

Please bear in mind the limitations of \"telemedicine\" and that I have not had the opportunity to examine you.. I cannot give directions/prescriptions, only general information.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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02 Sep 2008 23:44 #1227 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Would a macroglycol clear it up permanently? I don't really know what that is or where to get it. Where could I get something like that? Is this something that is going to affect my fast? And is a macroglycol something that clears it up permanently or just for the day? What can I do to get rid of it completely? Or will my fast do the trick and it will just take a little more time? I do know that candida is always in the gut but obviously something is in there and is still causing me to have gas. I really haven't had any symptoms of anything to do with an autoimmune disease so I doubt its that. Obviously I'm just an average Joe on the streets trying to just figure myself out. I just figured it would have passed by now. I also had a little heartburn last night so that hasnt passed completely yet either. Whether its an overgrowth of candida or not, do you have any suggestions on how to get whatever is in the gut to get out faster without affecting my fast? And since this is happening and I haven't felt true hunger yet is my body telling me to continue my fast?

Although not very enjoyable and I'm still getting crappy sleep I am very proud to have made it to day 27. Thanks again, take care. :)

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03 Sep 2008 13:49 #1228 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Unfortunately an intestinal wash (like with a macroglycol) is just that: It washes the gut clean. But just like washing anything else, if the same circumstances continue, the same \"dirt\" will return. It is however in my experience the best way of cleaning out what is in there now. In \"Nature\", we all get diarrhea from time to time (changing seasons, changing diets, the odd \"spolied\" meal) and in that way flush the intestine.

Remember that outo-immune disease can manifest with widely divergent symptoms, very often very vague and very non-specific.

Odd to experience heartburn at this stage. Once again makes me suspect a chronic irritation of the intestine which just could be auto-immune related. Would be nice to have those blood analysis.. which are standard investigations that can be requested by any doctor.

Don't put all your hope on one fast. It should be a lifestyle. And the more symptoms you experienced, the more is behind you.

Take good care and love yourself.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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04 Sep 2008 02:54 #1231 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Well I went and saw a naturopathic doctor yesterday and he was shocked and so were the other two doctors in training in how well I was doing after fasting for so long. He believes in fasting and since I was doing so well and was so alert and seemed to have decent energy to keep doing what I was doing. My heart rate was normal and my blood pressure was a little below normal but that was to be expected. Nothing too low to where they were worried though. He said the best thing for me to heal my gut and my depression was to continue what I was doing and he did not want to disrupt the fast in anyway. He has never had a patient that he had not told to stop after 10 days because usually their detox symptoms are so bad they are just falling apart. But he and the two girls were very happy for me and proud and he wasn't worried about me at all. He actually did a 10 day fast himself before and totally believes in the healing affects of fasting.

I did get a blood test and had all the things you told me to get tested tested. I should get back the results tomorrow and if not Friday at the latest. If they're back tomorrow I am going to go in and get them and if there is anything too scary or too low I will have an appointment with him. He does know that most things will be low but said he would study up in the next couple days to know where abouts would be too low. If I'm not too low in anything my next appointment will be when I am done with the fast but I think I am going to wait a couple weeks after. I am going to get the results and also post them on here so you know what they are as well.

Thanks again Andre and I sure hope my blood tests come back ok because I may go insane if I have an autoimmune disease. This depression has been hard enough and I don't know if I could take having something else on top of this. I had my thyroid checked a couple times last year in a blood test to make sure it wasn't the reason I i had depression and my thyroid was ok and it was ok so I'm hoping and praying I don't have an autoimmune disease. My girlfriend has lupus and I know how hard it is on her.

But I will post again when I get my test results back and let you know. 28 days baby!!! :)

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04 Sep 2008 03:48 #1232 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
I am pleased that you are doing so well and that you have been seen by a knowledgeable objective professional. We obviously need to be careful with anything departing from the orthodox. It is remarkable that when we Medical doctors harm patients by following \"protocol\" then all is OK but if someone comes of any harm (or even if not) while doing something unorthodox, then \"the system\" will prosecute us.

Looking forward to the results. Please bear in mind that each laboratory has its own reference ranges to determine abnormality of a result so please include the reference values when you send the results.

André

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05 Sep 2008 13:49 #1237 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Well I talked to the doctor today and I got my lab results back. He said the only thing he was a little worried about was my potassium levels and he said my liver enzymes were too high. He talked to the other doctors there and they said that would be expected. He wasn't too worried because he didn't tell me to stop my fast. He said he was trying to contact a fasting specialist in California to talk to him about the results and he would get back to me when he got ahold of him. But here's my results.

Result Reference RangeUnits

WBC 4.65 4.0-11.0 10*3/ul
RBC 4.81 4.30-5.70 10*6/ul
Hemoglobin 15.0 13.7-16.7 g/dl
Hematocrit 40.9 40.0-50.0 %
MCV 85.0 80.0-97.0 fl
MCH 31.2 26.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 36.7 32.0-36.0 g/dl
RDW 12.8 11.0-14.0 %
Platelets 213 150-450 10*3/ul
Neutrophils 2.21 1.8-7.0 10*3/ul
Lymphocytes 1.83 1.10-4.50 10*3/ul
Monocytes .43 .0-.90 10*3/ul
Eosinophils .06 .0-.30 10*3/ul
Basophils .04 .0-.10 10*3/ul
Sodium 135 135-145 meq/L
Potassium 3.3L 3.5-5.4 meq/L
Chloride 94L 98-111 meq/L
CO2 18L 20-36 meq/l
Glucose 71 60-99 mg/dl
BUN 60 >60 ml/min
BUN/CREAT Ratio 3 Ratio
Calcium 9.9 8.5-10.5 mg/dl
Anion Gap 26.3H 6-18
Protein Total 7.0 6.4-8.4 g/dl
Phosphorus 4.3 2.5-4.5 mg/dl
Albumin 4.7 4.2-5.5 g/dl
Globulin 2.3 2.0-5.0 g/dl
A/G Ratio 2.3 1.2-2.8 Ratio
SGOT (AST) 47H 10-45 u/l
LDH 141 10-45 u/l
ALK Phosph 56 110-210 u/l
SGPT (ALT) 54H 5-52 u/l
GGT 16 2-55 u/l
BILI Direct .4H .0-.3 mg/dl
BILI Indirect .4 .0-1.3 mg/dl
Uric Acid 14.3 H 3.5-8.3 mg/dl
Cholesterol 133L 150-200 mg/dl
Triglycerides 64 50-150 mg/dl
HDL Cholesterol 46 40-60 mg/dl
LDL (CALC) 74 50-100 mg/dl
LDL/HDL 1.6 .0-4.9 Ratio
CHOL/HDL 2.9 .0-13.4 Ratio
TSH-Reflex FT$ 1.209 .490-2.5 uIU/ml
Vit D 25 Hydroxy 35.6 33.0-100.0 ng/ml

He did not test me for vitamin B12 because he said he could figure out from everything else if it was too low and also it would save me a lot of money so he didn't do that. Other than that I believe he tested for everything you asked for and obviously more.

Well tomorrow is my 30th day and I am very happy about that. I had less gas today and that is promising. Whatever's in there is going to die soon. :) No matter what at most I got is 10 more days. Yipee!!! :)

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06 Sep 2008 04:29 #1238 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Yes if your B12 is low you'ss have a high MCV. Unfortunately many of your results are not in standard units so I really cannot interpret them without their reference ranges. Those I can, and are meaningful, are the following:
Full blood cell count is all normal.
Protein is usually 60-80 mg/l, so I accept those labs use mg/dl, in which case it is smack in the middle.
The ALT is my experience increase during detoxification. I have measured values as high as 4000.
The AST can be from liver or muscles, so relative activity can also increase it: I have seen levels of 6000 from intensive exercise alont.
Since the LDH is not raised, you are not running out of oxygen anyhwhere..
Direct bilirubin in international units are usually between 5 and 30 mmol/l; I wonder what units was used here. But direct and indirect bilirubin cannot be the same value, else it indicates that all the bilirubin in your blood has been processed by the liver and thereafter returned to the blood.. practically impossible.
Uric Acid is usually below 0.42 mmol/litre in women in SI (Système Internationale) units; I wonder what units was used here. The same for Cholesterol (usually 2-5 mmol/litre) and Triglycerides (less than 1.7). But I do take note of the \"H\" at uric acid meaning you are losing real weight and the \"L\" at Cholesterol indicating it to be low.
The screening for the Thyroid is fine.
I agree the overall picture is something to be really happy about and vindicates our approach, proving it effective and safe.
Still, please don't force yourself to 40 days just for the sake of a figure. Be kind to yourself. You can always fast again in future.
Best wishes
André
We

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06 Sep 2008 09:06 #1240 by Peace Seeker
Peace Seeker replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
So I just updated my post with hopefully all the information you need but it hasn't shown up yet but maybe a moderator has to approve it.

Anyways, I talked to my doctor today and he said he talked to Alan Goldhamer in California. He is someone who has fasted a ton of people at his own center called True North. He advised me to end my fast because my liver enzymes were too high but he also said he was being on the safe side. Alan told my doctor that he would terminate it. He also told me to stop exercising and start resting because my potassium levels are too low and they are just going to get lower if I continue to exercise. I told him I feel fine and I was going to talk to you first and then talk to him on Monday. We both wish I would have checked my blood before the fast so we would know what my liver enzymes were then. He also said that Alan said if I am losing any more than 1 pound a day than I am dehydrated which is another reason to end the fast.

Maybe I misunderstood you but you said that my AST is raised because of me exercising. Is AST my liver enzymes? You also said something about ALT increasing during exercise. I now am looking at my results and I don't see AST or ALT. Maybe you can inform me and help me out Andre.

I really want to continue my fast and its not really because of a number although I think it would be cool to do the same thing Jesus, Moses did twice and Ghandi did. It's because my depression hasn't totally lifted yet and I still have gas which I take as my body telling me to continue to fast. I also haven't experienced any spiritual aspects and I would love to feel those. I have read countless stories about people feeling that this late in their fast. I used to be a very spiritual person and I know I am capable of that. I just want to be at peace again you know? So the number is the least important but my mental and physical health is. I do realize I could go 40 days and I might still be in a depression but I would be shocked if I still have gas then and if my gut fully heals within the next few days I think my depression will lift shortly after so thats my reason why I want to continue.

I have lost 43 pounds in 30 days and the fasting doctor in California thinks that is too much but he also promotes passive fasting and rest.

So if you were fasting someone Andre, with my results would you terminate the fast? Are my liver enzymes too high? Or is it just because I am exercising? Also is my potassium levels going to keep going down if I continue to exercise and am I at too dangerous of a level to keep exercising? Like I said I feel fine but I always appreciate your advice and I look forward to your comments.

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06 Sep 2008 13:31 #1241 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Your result, dear Peace Seeker, will let me advise you to continue fasting. Remember that the \"reference ranges\" are not \"normal values\" as about 5-10% of normal people fall outside the reference ranges. Your enzymes are practically normal. I am actually surprised at just HOW normal they are.
AST occurs in both liver and muscle. And the weveral thousands of units I mentioned applies to the ranges you have just added.
I think passive fasting is wrong for most people. In Nature, the fasting organism is more active than the eating one. After all, the one that has eaten does not need to find food. Our genes promote activity during short (less than a few months) of famine, and only start conserving energy during a long famine.
My male patients typically lose one kilogram (2.2 pounds) during a day when doing long fasts. Women around half of that.
You are NOT dehydrated according to the blood analysis. If you were, the protein levels would have been hig.
Your potassium level is lowish yes but far from dangerously low. Anyway, if you were damaging muscle in the process, the potassium would be high not low.
I think your advice to stop, based on the blood tests, are unduly alarmist. I would be happy with your results in any patient whether fasting or not.
The decision to terminate the fast should not be based on these results but on how you feel. If the potassium was for example under 3, I would have considered it meaningful.
Hope this helps.
André

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07 Sep 2008 01:43 #1243 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re:Fast Supervision!
Perhaps I could mention, IF you are worried about the slight tendency to a lowish potassium, you may as well take a Slow K tablet or two (or another equivalent, usually pure KCl or Potassium Chloride) to sooth your conscience.

André

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