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12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting

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20 Jun 2011 21:47 #7913 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting

Milena wrote: I totally see your point regarding the nutrition, but then it would not be a pure fruitarean diet, would it? Since I would be adding vegetables to it. I want the devide between fruits and vegetables to be very clear. In fact I won't be eating tomatoes on the vegan portion of my experiment either. The purpose is to see if one dietary choice over the other promotes better weightloss results.


True that want be a pure frutarian diet. I would suggest that you try a pure fruitarian diet and eat what you want the most of fruits. 4 weeks doesnt matter in terms of minerals etc. But of course if you suddenly start to crave some leafy greens i would eat it for sure :)

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20 Jun 2011 21:54 #7914 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
I hardly eat leafy greens now, although I know I should, so I don't see how I would crave them. Although maybe after 4-weeks of being semi-raw vegan it might change.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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20 Jun 2011 22:01 - 20 Jun 2011 22:09 #7916 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
You can do that if you want, but the leafy greens will not make a difference in amount of weight you lose. I am just thinking that there may be people who would want to try the "frugivore" (fruit and greens) as a way of life, not just a temporary diet once they can see what it does for their body. There are NO PURE FRUIT EATERS in nature as far as I know: all members of the ape family (gorillas, chimps, bonobos, etc.) eat greens as part of their diet (and none of them are fat, btw), the only differences are the proportion of fruits to greens that they consume. Gorillas eat mostly greens, they have more braun but less brains. Chimps eat more fruit and less greens and have more brains and less braun (though they are stronger than most any human). Bonobos (type of chimp) eat even more fruit and even less greens and are of course smarter than regular chimps. BUT, they ALL eat some greens. Pure fruitarianism, as you describe it is not a sustainable way of eating over the long term for the majority of the population. And, when you win the contest (which you surely will no matter what), and the final segment turns out to be more effective, then others may want to try it for themselves and eating fruit with greens is nutritionally superior to eating just fruit and is a program they could sustain for some time without negavtive nutritional consequences. Ultimately, to maintain weightloss, a person needs to find a way of eating, not just a temporary diet. The results from temporary dieting (restrictive eating plans) never work in the long term. The idea with your experiment here, I believe, is that you eat freely of all foods available on a particular dietary plan, but to not make any conscious effort to restrict calories. Just eat when hungry and stop when full. Am I correct? If so, then I still think my suggestion is best (but then, of course, I am biased, ha! ha!)

So, that being said, I still think it would be better to do four weeks of omnivorous, four weeks of low-fat cooked vegan, and four weeks of low-fat raw vegan. The other reason I suggest the fruit with the greens is because there is a very significant number of people following this diet based on the book The 80/10/10 Diet by Doug Graham, so if anyone did want to follow it there would plenty of support and resources for them to access to (there are many weightloss success stories on the internet from people who have changed their diet to 80/10/10 raw vegan). And onther reason I suggest greens is purely personally. If I eat only fruits I start to feel out of balance (I would describe it as feeling too yin--in Chinese terminology), but you can try it and see how you feel.

In the end, however, the final decision is up to you and I will support you in whatever plan you decide on. If you do decide in favor of a pure fruitarian diet, I would encourage you to seek out a wide variety of fruits.

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20 Jun 2011 22:23 #7917 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
Thank you Esmee! Yes the idea is to eat without having to count calories or percentages, since that would make it way too complecated. I agree with you that the goal is not just to change temporarily but to inspire life-long changes in someone as they lose weight and transition back to regular eating.

So do you mean four weeks of low-fat cooked vegan meaning including grains, flour and fruit and four weeks raw vegan no grains and no flour but include fruit?

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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20 Jun 2011 22:42 #7918 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting

Milena wrote: Thank you Esmee! So do you mean four weeks of low-fat cooked vegan meaning including grains, flour and fruit and four weeks raw vegan no grains and no flour but include fruit?


Yes, precisely. The main thing with both is NO ADDED FAT, which will be a littel trickier with the cooked vegan than the raw vegan diet. Basically on cooked vegan you can eat any fruits (no avocado due to fat content), veggies, grains, squash, potatoes, sweet potatoes. This will provide 80% of calories from carbs, 10% from protein, and 10% from fat--naturally. The same is true of the raw vegan diet and you calorie consumption should be about the same on both diets if you just eat based on hunger. The biggest problem with a raw low-fat vegan diet is most people don't eat enough to meet their calorie needs. It is not uncommon for people eating this way to consume 5 or more bananas for a meal (elite athletes commonly consume 10 at a meal) and if all you eat is low calorie fruits like oranges or apples you almost cannot eat enough to meet your calorie needs, so just be away of this. Greens help to balance out the sugar in the fruit also. I used Cron-O-Meter to track my calorie intake for the first year just to make sure I was eating enough. You can download it or NutriDiary and enter your food into it and see what your total calorie intake is for a day and this will give you an idea of whether you are meeting your requirements or not. It doesn't really take that much time and it is quite interesting to see.

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20 Jun 2011 23:12 - 20 Jun 2011 23:15 #7919 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
Here is a living example of a young woman who adopted the raw vegan diet and how it has changed her life and her body (I'm not crazy about the music she chose, but you can just turn the sound down)



This man's story is also phenomenal. He ate almost all his food as green smoothies (1 gallon per day).

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20 Jun 2011 23:30 #7920 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting

Esmée La Fleur wrote: Here is a living example of a young woman who adopted the raw vegan diet and how it has changed her life and her body (I'm not crazy about the music she chose, but you can just turn the sound down)



This man's story is also phenomenal. He ate almost all his food as green smoothies (1 gallon per day).


Sure but i can also show you some sick results from people changing their diet and exersice and that diet is based on meat and other crap and their results are better then this so dont give the greens all the love :) sure they are wonderfull but only your body and your body only knows what it needs that why i say consume fruits but if you body really crave greens eat them but listen to your body not people :) your body has all the answears :)

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21 Jun 2011 02:55 - 21 Jun 2011 02:57 #7925 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
Of course our bodies are unique and have their unique needs. I firmly believe in that. However, this experiment is not about what I will crave, but what works best for weightloss, while remains tolerable. Hence, my full intention is to identify the difference between different systems and help others to make choices based on that. I also have to keep in mind that I am doing 4 weeks at the time which provides me with variety, for someone to decide to subscribe to a 12-week program of one particular dietary style that style also needs to include some variety. With that in mind, maybe eating fruit only is not such a great idea. I remember eating fruit only for the first 3 days after my 40-days fast and I was sick of them pretty fast.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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21 Jun 2011 03:28 #7926 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
Yes, just fruit can get boring, especially if it is under or over rip and of generally poor quality and does not taste good (that would rarely have been a problem in the jungle when we picked it right off the tree). By including greens and a few other vegtable fruits like tomatoes, red bell pepper, cucumber, and herbs like basil or mint, etc. you will have more variety of flavors. BTW, soaked dried figs blended with raspberries makes for a nice natural fat-free dressing.

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21 Jun 2011 03:40 #7927 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
I will count on you for some very low maintenance recipes....:) And I do love herbs.
So olive oil is not allowed on raw vegan diet at all?

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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21 Jun 2011 03:50 #7928 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
No, not on a low-fat cooked vegan or low-fat raw vegan diet. That is one of the most important aspects -- NO ADDED FAT --that is one of the main reason people lose weight on both those types of diet so easily.

Both kind of diet can be made tasty with a little ingenuity, and recipe books are available. But I have never really gotten into the recipes because I have always liked my food very simple. I can easily eat a meal of white peaches and lettuce (raw) or buckwheat groats and steamed okra (cooked), or sweet potato and asparagus (cooked) or a pineapple/blueberry smoothie (raw) or garbanzo bean and vegies salad (raw+cooked). The variety for me comes with the variety of the fruit or vegetable or starch or bean or grain, as they each have their own unique flavor. And if you change them up every day they don't get boring (at least not to me).

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21 Jun 2011 03:57 #7929 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
I am all for simplicity, particularly since in my household I will be the only one going throught the experiment and no one else will eat it if I cook. Besides with 3 kids, a husband, two pets, a full-time job, upcoing studies plus this website who has the time to be cooking elaborate vegan meals, cooked or uncooked...lol

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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21 Jun 2011 04:05 #7930 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
I will however include some limited amount of olive oil and walnuts in both raw and cooked vegan diets since it is important to have those when you are dry fasting.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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21 Jun 2011 05:48 - 21 Jun 2011 05:57 #7933 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Intermittent Fast and Ketosis
Interesting observation. Last night, since it was Father's Day, I could not experiment with specific pre-fast meal, i.e. either fruit or veggies, and ended up eating combination of seafood/animal protein and carbs. I even had a miniature scone with icing just before I started my fast.

So today when I decided to check my ketones levels at 22 hours, I did not expect to see much. To my surprise it showed between SMALL level and MODERATE. From that I can only conclude that if you have your intermittent fasting days close enough to each other your ketosis starts off pretty fast. The break between my last fast and the current one was 60 hours.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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21 Jun 2011 12:51 #7941 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Intermittent Fast and Ketosis

Milena wrote: Interesting observation. Last night, since it was Father's Day, I could not experiment with specific pre-fast meal, i.e. either fruit or veggies, and ended up eating combination of seafood/animal protein and carbs. I even had a miniature scone with icing just before I started my fast.

So today when I decided to check my ketones levels at 22 hours, I did not expect to see much. To my surprise it showed between SMALL level and MODERATE. From that I can only conclude that if you have your intermittent fasting days close enough to each other your ketosis starts off pretty fast. The break between my last fast and the current one was 60 hours.


Could someone please give me a short seminar on ketones and why you are mesuring that? and what has it to do with fat burning while fasting etc? because then ill have to buy one myself

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21 Jun 2011 13:37 #7942 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: Intermittent Fast and Ketosis
I bought two stix. One that mesures Ketones and Protein and another that mesures Ketones and glucose. Wich one do i need?

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21 Jun 2011 22:09 #7950 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Intermittent Fast and Ketosis
Based on your response in your blog, I assume that you figured out what ketosis is on your own. As for the sticks you bought they sound more complecated then the ones I have. Not that it's a bad thing. Maybe you can tell us what is the difference between the two as you try them both.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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22 Jun 2011 20:26 - 22 Jun 2011 20:27 #7964 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
After giving my plan a considerable contemplative time I have come to the following conclusion in regards to the breakdown of my 12 weeks.

Week I - Week IV: two 36-hour dry fasts per week with omnivorous predominantly low fat diet.

Week V - Week VIII: two 36-hour dry fasts per week with cooked vegan diet which will include whole grains, olive oil, bread, nuts. NO EGGS and NO DAIRY.

Week VIII - Week XII: two 36-hour dry fasts per week with law fat raw vegan diet of fruits and veggies only. NO OILS and NO NUTS will be used.

I think this way I will experience three very different diets and, in four weeks per diet, will be able to identify how each specific diet influences weight and fat loss. In the ideal world I would also apply coloric limitations, but with everything that is going on in my life at this point I do not want to get too technical and complex with it. Let's see what happens.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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22 Jun 2011 20:27 #7965 by superhuman
superhuman replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting

Milena wrote: After giving my plan a considerable contemplative time I have come to the following conclusion in regards to the breakdown of my 12 weeks.

Week I - Week IV: two 36-hour dry fasts per week with omnivorous predominantly low fat diet.

Week V - Week VIII: two 36-hour dry fasts per week with cooked vegan diet which will include whole grains, olive oil, bread, nuts. NO EGGS and NO DAIRY.

Week VIII - Week XII: two 36-hour dry fasts per week with law fat raw vegan diet of fruits and veggies only. NO OILS and NO NUTS will be used.

I think this way I will experience three very different diets and, in four weeks per diet, will be able to identify how each specific diet influences weight and fat loss. In the ideal world I would also apply coloric limitations, but with everything that is going on in my life at this point I do not want to get too technical and complex with it. Let's see what happens.


Great, looking forward to it :D

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22 Jun 2011 21:37 - 22 Jun 2011 22:19 #7970 by Yuliya
Yuliya replied the topic: Re: 12-WEEK 36-hr twice a week Intermittent Dry Fasting
Good luck on your journey!

Are you going to eat avocados during the raw week?
I would advise against that. They are very high in fat and best if eaten sparingly. But during the trial week it would be best to omit them completely, because your digestion will have much easier time than while adjusting to the diet of raw fruits and greens.

May compassion to yourself and all beings guide you in your eating, fasting, and lifestyle choices.

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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