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Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!

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12 Jul 2012 14:36 - 12 Jul 2012 14:39 #11354 by singingnun
singingnun created the topic: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
I have just completed a combined fast. I did a juice fast (5 days) followed by a dry fast (2 days) followed by a water fast (1 day).

My intention was to carry on, and I felt relatively OK considering but had to stop because of terrible pains in my legs, especially thighs. When I lay down they were worse! And I was just beside myself with the pain and could do nothing, so I had to come off the fast.

Most of my other symptoms were pretty minor and I would like to have carried on but had to stop. Once I ate some grapes I felt better and have done since as I have started to gradually eat more :huh: .

Has anyone got any suggestions as to why this happened or what this is about? Is it likely that each time I fast these pains will become less? Any insights would be gratefully received.

Cheers

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16 Jul 2012 15:11 #11389 by MM84
MM84 replied the topic: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Hi Singingnun,

I know what youre talking about with the leg cramps. I read somewhere recently that our legs are big holders of toxins and impurities. I am on a fast presently and have had pretty strong leg and lower back pain, too.

I found that getting a hot water bottle, or a heating pack would do too, helped to soothe those aches. I have also been trying to dry skin brush morning and night. I like the bernard jensen dry skin brushes. You can find them online for a reasonable price. I start at my feet and work my way up always brushing towards the heart. I do 3 strokes on the front and then 3 strokes on the back. Lastly, if you have a trampoline I know it can be very good for your lympthatic system and kind of fun too.

Best,

Meg

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16 Jul 2012 15:32 - 16 Jul 2012 22:25 #11392 by david
david replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Hello Singingnun well this is more than likely a detox symptom and I guess the question The Fast Doctor will ask is whether you have performed the Five Step Elimination Cycle during the fast, but have moved the post topic to his forum section just in case he would like to shed more light on this. If you were in fact experiencing cramps then there have been other cramp related posts in the past where calcium/magnesium deficiency was underscored as a likely cause. And the best supplement for this is said to be Dolomite. Glad that you are over the pain.

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16 Jul 2012 16:56 #11393 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Hi Singinugnun, MM84 had some good advice there.. you'll see those brushings and heatings are part of the 5-step detox cycle which in my experience works quite well.

But I also noted that you went on a limited diet before starting the fast. Being on fruit only gears your metabolism squarely on the anabolic way of functioning, which holds the danger of bringing your proteins (muscles) into the picture. Thus you may have had some muscle breakdown during the fast due to the way it was started. My experience is that is is a lot safer and easier to have a meal dominated by fat (oils, even egg yolk, cream, etc.) upon entering the fast. This gears your metabolism towards fat during the fast and thus protect the proteins (muscles). Add to this regular cycles of detox as referred above and you are almost guaranteed a safe and painfree fast.

Do read the forums where the rationale behind this has been explained several times. And please don't hesitate to ask more questions.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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16 Jul 2012 18:20 #11394 by singingnun
singingnun replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Many thanks to all contributors.

Fast Doctor, I will try your recommendation next time. It seems to make sense, though I have not seen this elsewhere on the net/books on fasting, which surprises me. Generally, a raw food or juice fast is recommended prior to a dry or water fast to ease the transition.

However, I do see your rationale!

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16 Jul 2012 18:24 #11395 by singingnun
singingnun replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
p.s. Could anyone point me to the articles/topics here that say more about what you should eat leading up to a water or dry fast? I can't seem to find them ...

Thanks again.

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16 Jul 2012 18:33 #11396 by singingnun
singingnun replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Actually, I see "The main problem with entering fast from eating fruits" item in Articles, so perhaps this is what is meant. As I said, it is unusual to suggest a fatty meal before a fast but see the reasoning behind it.

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16 Jul 2012 19:27 #11397 by david
david replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Well done for finding it. I too find this unusual in that I have not heard this theory presented elsewhere either, however I do understand the logic behind it and as The Fast Doctor has a fully equipped lab I guess that he has been able to take blood samples from clients who enter a fast on fats, proteins and carbs to test his theory. I still don't fully understand why the body would continue to catabolise muscle during a fast when it is good at determining what is optimal for its survival and it would seem that muscle tissue is more important than fats.

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17 Jul 2012 08:21 #11403 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Quite right David and singingnun.. Remember that whenever your body used protein for energy it is first converted back to carbohydrate. Thus if you enter a fast with your metabolism geared towards either protein or carbohydrate (eg. fruit) then the first reserves to be used would be blood sugar, followed by glycogen, followed by protein. Indeed it will eventually start using fat but the switch is delayed by the availability of protein which under those circumstances is easier to incorporate into the metabolism. We prevent that by guiding to body towards fat before entering the fast.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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17 Jul 2012 09:38 #11405 by david
david replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
last meal fruit then

first reserves to be used would be blood sugar, followed by glycogen, followed by protein.

last meal fats then first reserves to be used would be blood sugar, followed by glycogen, followed by fats
Is that correct?

the switch is delayed by the availability of (muscle?) protein which under those circumstances is easier to incorporate into the metabolism.


The mouth, stomach, pancreas, and small intestines play a role in producing the necessary enzymes for digesting both fat, protein and carbs. If the pancreas (stomach and small intestine) have got the protease gate open triggered by the last meal being protein based then it is easier for it to continue producing protein (muscle) based digestive enzymes than to switch over to fat producing enzymes.

if the last meal was purely protein based how many days into the fast will the pancreas switch over to fat producing enzymes?

If the last meal was protein and fat based what would happen?

If the last meal was purely starch based your muscles are still in the firing line as proteins are converted back to carbs (sugars) as they are built from these same carbs.

Thank you doctor

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17 Jul 2012 09:48 #11406 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Nice concise description, thank you David. I agree with your summary.

Concerning WHEN things happen:

Unfortunately as we are all different, and we change over time (including seasons) one cannot put a time to changing enzymes.

Bear in mind the pancreas produce digestive enzymes for the gut and during a fast the fat "digestion" takes place in the tissues, so pancreatic lipase does not really get involved in this process. The enzymes that re-convert stored fat comes from within the cells themselves. That may take up to 3 days to become fully active on a first fast but if you fast regularly (eg. weekly) that can happen in a few hours.

Hope I understood correctly and responded appropriately.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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17 Jul 2012 10:00 #11409 by david
david replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Thank you Doctor I get the picture now. Having a last fatty based meal gives the body a nudge in the right direction rather than spelling out significant muscle loss if our last meal is carb or protein based as quite rapidly the body cottons on and starts to digest fats anyway. Is it possible that fruit juice based diets are best avoided then? As these may lead to continuous muscle loss throughout the diet or would the body not tend to 'tuck in' to muscle if there is enough daily carbs via juicing?

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17 Jul 2012 11:04 #11413 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Felt good on fast - but had to stop because of agonising pain in legs!
Lovely formulation David.. nudge the metabolism.

Fruit diets are great if it supplies all your energy so you don't go catabolic.

But exercise per se can also protect your muscles, as it indicates to your metabolism the muscles are not redundant.. that's why I avoid passive fasting.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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