Copyright 2018 - Custom text here
  • fast for a cleanse

  • 2

    fast for a detox

  • 3

    fast for freedom

  • fast for longevity

Fatty foods before and after fast

More
01 Aug 2011 09:49 #8727 by Solis Lucidus
Solis Lucidus created the topic: Fatty foods before and after fast
Hi everyone! This seems like a really nice and supportive community that I'll love to be a part of.

The next two paragraphs is mostly backstory, my real question is in the last paragraph :

I first started fasting when I decided to go on a ketogenic diet and heard that the fastest way to get into ketosis is by doing a 2 day (drank water though!) fast. It went really well and I was surprised at the other benefits I got from fasting! I thought all that detoxifying your body talk was nonsense until I technically did it by water fasting. And so, I'm hooked and have been intermittent fasting for the past week and I'm seeing good results, general healthwise.

Anyways, I'm mostly trying to lose body fat by fasting and I've decided to start my first "serious" fast. The longest I've ever fasted for was 3 days and I'm trying to do a 5 day long. primarily dry fast but if I get thirsty, I'll drink.

From my history with ketosis, eating lots of fat will get you into it faster (and keep you full for a long time) so I was wondering if I can prep myself for this 5 day fast by having a normal 3 meals a day that is high in fat and when I break the fast I'll do the same. I actually already broke a 2 day water fast today by eating fatty foods (avocados, meat, cheese, mayo) and limiting my carb intake and I'm pretty much just asking if it's okay to go ahead and start my dry fast tomorrow. I'm in no rush to start so if I messed up my ability to lose weight by gorging on fats today I have no problem starting another time.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
01 Aug 2011 18:16 #8728 by carolineq
carolineq replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Congrats on your success with the short fasts... I'd love to read more about the benefits you're experiencing with respect to detox.

I have suspended my fasts with fat, cream and had great success with going longer distances with intermittant fat intakes, but honestly, did receive quite a bit of flack for it on this forum when I boasted about that approach...

As to breaking the fast, you will also be told to only break the fast with fruits first and avoiding proteins so as not to overwhelm your body with ammonia which can be toxic in SOME people after a long fast and may also hurt your kidneys and other organs with small blood vessels (eyes and brain).

Good luck!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Solis Lucidus

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
01 Aug 2011 20:53 #8731 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Hello Solis Lucidus and welcome to the forum!

I will be interested in the doctors response to you.

I just finished reading his e-book Health Won, which I highly recommend. I suspect that he will not be in favor of a full-time ketogenic diet, but I could be wrong. His general recommendation is to eat high-fat on the day before you fast, but to eat high-carb when you come off your fast and until the day before your next fast.

Can you tell us a little bit more about your self, why you have decided to follow a ketogenic diet, and what your short and long term goals are with your diet and fasting program? Thanks.

Please feel free to blog about your experiences in out BLOG section. You will get a lot more feedback and support there from other fasters.

Blessings, Esmée

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
01 Aug 2011 22:47 #8734 by Solis Lucidus
Solis Lucidus replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast

carolineq wrote: Congrats on your success with the short fasts... I'd love to read more about the benefits you're experiencing with respect to detox.

I have suspended my fasts with fat, cream and had great success with going longer distances with intermittant fat intakes, but honestly, did receive quite a bit of flack for it on this forum when I boasted about that approach...

As to breaking the fast, you will also be told to only break the fast with fruits first and avoiding proteins so as not to overwhelm your body with ammonia which can be toxic in SOME people after a long fast and may also hurt your kidneys and other organs with small blood vessels (eyes and brain).

Good luck!


Thanks! I'll make sure to post about them sometime.
And you did? Wow, I'm a bit nervous to hear the doctor's response now. I thought about what I learned about dieting and nutrition decided that it would make the most sense to start and end a fast with fatty meals but I'm no doctor. I had no clue about that ammonia thing till now, my meals yesterday were pretty high in protein as well as fat.

Esmée La Fleur wrote: His general recommendation is to eat high-fat on the day before you fast, but to eat high-carb when you come off your fast and until the day before your next fast.


I remember doing that once and ended up gaining more weight than I lost in just two days that's why I was thinking of just ending my fast with more fat.

Esmée La Fleur wrote: Can you tell us a little bit more about your self, why you have decided to follow a ketogenic diet, and what your short and long term goals are with your diet and fasting program? Thanks.


Well, I'm 19 and weighed 135 pounds about 2 months ago. I don't have a scale at home so my weight measurements are pretty irregular but I know that I've lost a total of 9 pounds and gained 5 last month. I highly suspect that most of those pounds were simply water weight especially since after eating carbs I would gain back weight. I mostly wanted to lose weight until I started experiencing the benefits of fasting but while I want those benefits, weight loss is still my major priority. I mostly just want to lose that "stubborn" lower stomach fat and see my abs, my genetics suck and that's pretty much the only part of my body where fat literally refuses to leave.

I started following a ketogenic diet because they have their own benefits as well! (I'll have to talk about these benefits sooner or later) And Caribbean cuisine is incredibly carb heavy and it's only after starting a ketogenic diet did I realize the downsides to having a diet so heavy in carbs.

And my goals are mostly losing weight but also to have more energy, more self-restraint when it comes to food as I was always a big eater and just be healthier generally.

And I do plan to blog about my experiences, I even plan on starting a diary. I'm planning to do this to distract me from any hunger I experience.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
01 Aug 2011 23:34 #8736 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Welcome dear Solis Lucidus, I hope you will derive a lot of benefits from here.

Fat AFTER the fast is going to help you put fat ON.. because the body will more easily assimilate that fat.. so do heed the invaluable advice of Esmèe..

Reshaping the body can to some extent be done by massaging the places you wish to put on when you eat and those you wish to lose, during the fast. But make sure this massage forms part of the elimination cycle, else you are likely to simply shunt tissues around the body.

To be really sure, you could test for the presence of ketones, for example with urine dipstick, before massaging the areas you wish to lose from..

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2011 00:41 - 02 Aug 2011 00:47 #8739 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Dear Solis Lucidus,

I know that a ketogenic diet can be very therapeutic for people with epilepsy, and I expect for other brain disorders as well.

There is certainly a lot of controversy surrounding the use of a ketogenic diet in normal people for the long term. I was hoping that Dr. André would comment on this and give us his opinion.

I do know that too much protein can be hard on the kidneys over time, and ketogenic diets are general quite high in protein. From all of the research I have done during the past 20 years, it appears that a diet high in fruits and vegetables and low in fat is really the best for long-term health. This comes out to about 80% carb, 10% protein, and 10% fat.

The key is to limit your intake of starches and lean more on fruits and vegetables to meet your calorie needs. Simple sugars from fruits to not cause weight gain to the same extent as complex carbohydrates (potatoes and rice) can for some people. But even complex carbohydtrates will not cause weight gain if the fat in your diet remains below 10%.

It is the combination of fat and carbohydrate (potato and butter, pasta and cheese sauce, etc) that will cause weight (fat) gain if eaten to excess. The other key is to eat all of your food whole and unprocesses. If you eat whole grain brown rice, it is much more filling than white rice. Many, many people have lost weight following these simple guidelines. If you are interesting in reading more about this I can refer you to some good books.

With all of this being said, I am still very interested to hear about your own experience on a ketogenic diet and to learn about the different benefits you have received from this way of eating.

Blessings, Esmée

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2011 01:04 - 02 Aug 2011 01:07 #8741 by Solis Lucidus
Solis Lucidus replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast

The Fast Doctor wrote: Fat AFTER the fast is going to help you put fat ON.. because the body will more easily assimilate that fat.. so do heed the invaluable advice of Esmèe..

Reshaping the body can to some extent be done by massaging the places you wish to put on when you eat and those you wish to lose, during the fast. But make sure this massage forms part of the elimination cycle, else you are likely to simply shunt tissues around the body.


So fat before is alright then? I assumed correctly? That eating fat before fasting will "direct" my body to burning predominantly fat for energy?

@Esmee, I read that carbs + fat causes weight gain and that's what my diet composed of before I got into dieting. I plan to not mix too many carbs with fat after I burn off all this weight by fasting & exercise. I really just want a fresh start before I start college next month, I hope this one month is enough time to lose weight. I plan to severely alter my diet after all this fasting.

Thanks for the info so far, everyone!

And I do intend on posting about what I've gained frmo fasting and a ketogenic diet the problem is that I'm just not sure which section I should post in.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2011 08:33 #8750 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Fat in the last meal before a fast is recommended as it helps your body start to use fat as a fuel and hence go into ketosis faster.

Afterwards it's best to easy back into foods depending on how long your fast was like with fruits or yogurts are ideal in the first day or two after a fast.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2011 23:06 #8756 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Remember dear Esmée, Starch and fruit sugar is identical by the time it reaches your blood.. starch is after all just a long chain of glucose (fruit sugar) molecules and your Amylase breaks it down to glucose before absorption. But I agree, starchy foods typically lack the micronutrients you get in fruits and vegetables.

I will always avoid protein more than 10 per cent of calories. I prefer to aim for 5%. Any more, and your body simply transform it back to carbohydrate.. which is not bad, but the process releases Ammonia which is toxic.. your liver then has to convert this to urea for your kidneys to excrete. Thus both your liver and kidneys get a hard time from a protein rich diet.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
02 Aug 2011 23:35 #8759 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Thank you for your response, Dr. André.

Yes, I understand that complex carbs eventually get broken down into simple sugars, but I know from personal experience that I and many other gain weight much more easily from starches than from fruit, even though the calorie consumption remains the same. Why this is true for some people like myself, I do not know, I just know I have experienced it, and heard it from many others.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Sharrhan

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
19 Aug 2011 15:01 #8973 by Solis Lucidus
Solis Lucidus replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Hey everyone!

I just wanted to moreorless report and say that I decided to break a 4 day water fast with a fatty meal (bacon + an omelet with cheese and mayo) and felt full for almost the whole day with just that. I ate just 5 strips of bacon and the omelet was made with two eggs, about half a square inch of cheddar cheese which I grated and a tablespoon of mayonnaise. Usually, when I broke my fast with fruits/veggies or a light meal with even a moderate amount of carbs I would go into a hunger craze later in the day and end up eating about 3000 calories at the end of the day. When I ate the fatty meal I ate about 1400 calories at most.

I didn't really experience any negatives although I did hear that I would experience indigestion and stomach pains but, that was just me.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 12:54 #8976 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Dear Solis, having fat soon after a fast is outright dangerous. Your whole body is geared towards converting fat to ketones for energy so if you supply fat after a fast this can give you a keto-acidosis. Fatty meals BEFORE a fast is great but please be careful after that.. and eating a dead pig with all the protein in there, well that could lead to rapid protein breakdown with the release of Ammonia.

It is generally safe to break a fast with carbohydrate like fruit but please avoid proteins or fat until all your energy needs have been met. The "negatives" are typically not in the digestive process but in the metabolism.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 13:21 #8977 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Just wondering during Ramadan style fasting or warrior style eating (eating once a day) what type of meal would be best like high/low in fat/carbs/protein as it's after a fast but also before fasting again.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 13:52 #8978 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Years ago I was invited to address the Muslim Medical association in South Africa and I informed them about the health risks of their "fast"ing.. of course they did not like the message but honestly, it is a dangerous habit. It is NOT a fast as you never really get completely ketotic and they consume protein rich foods in between, which load them with Nitrogen.. which may explain why that specific population in my country at least has a much reduced life expectancy compared to other populations in their income group.

If you eat animals then once a day or once in 2 days is typical and natural but if you eat plants it is more likely normal to eat throughout the day. That's how our ancestors accessed food.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 18:40 #8979 by Christian144
Christian144 replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Dear Fasting Doctor,

Could you please share with me how to break a fast? And how many days, in your experience, after I fast I need to go, in breaking a fast correctly? THANKS!
I really hurt my kidneys, heart and brain, doing this (dry fast, I just did,) wrong, so your info on this, would be of great help.

All the best..

Joseph

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 21:07 #8984 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Well dear Joseph, always remember that there are no "correct" ways.. we are different and we go through different biorhythms needing different diets, etc. Thus, your "biofeedback" remains the most accurate source of information. Unfortunately this tends to be unreliable due to our preconceived ideas and its being manipulated by the media and the industry which used all sorts of chemical additives to mislead us.

That having been said, the guidelines are that you should not allow dehydration. Always have pure water as much as your body asks for. We guys who fast dry have a lot of experience and a finely tuned catabolism.

Secondly, you should satisfy your energy needs with the basic source of energy in the human metabolism (Glucose) before exposing yourself to proteins or fats.. otherwise you simply force your body to turn the proteins into carbohydrates with the release of ammonia, and break down too much fat which could lead to uncontrolled ketosis.

Thus I recommend you break a fast with fruit or at leas a raw plant based meal. You can start slowly and build up until you have been non-hungry for at lease several hours before going for greater variety, in particular substances with higher protein content.

I described several possible fast breaking regimens in "Health Won". But they are all secondary to biofeedback...

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Christian144

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 21:47 - 20 Aug 2011 21:53 #8985 by Christian144
Christian144 replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
André,

Thanks so much for sharing this with me. :cheer:
I was eating egg's, thought that would be "good" for me.
I'll quit having protein and fat's. I did not know that such foods, would cause toxins from ammonia..until you shared it. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me.

That having been said, the guidelines are that you should not allow dehydration. Always have pure water as much as your body asks for. We guys who fast dry have a lot of experience and a finely tuned catabolism.


I think that makes sense, André. That is what I would rather do. But, for a year I have tried water, even with acid supplements, and due to damage in my stomach lining, the acid issue was just to strong, could not got past, 2 days without sever effects, extreme vomiting, weakness, etc. With dry, I have no stomach issues. I know, you and other professional's are more apt to doing this, with the knowledge base and experience, that you have accumulated. But, the best results and least symptoms, and the safety I have, seem to best come from dry then wet.
Wish I could do wet, but seems, my body will only allow dry.

Thus I recommend you break a fast with fruit


If I may ask, can one have to much glucose, while re-feeding? Can to much sugar from fruit affect the body badly? Or just the wrong sugar's like chocolate, etc.
From my "biofeedback" the more (fruit) sugar I have, it seems the worse I get, right after a fast.. I have had hyperglycemia, so that may be connected..
I have had great results with veggies, but with my damaged stomach lining, can't seem to handle raw, so I have to cook them, first.

You can start slowly and build up until you have been non-hungry for at lease several hours before going for greater variety, in particular substances with higher protein content.


Will do. :) Been to liberal with what I eat, right after fasting.

I described several possible fast breaking regimens in "Health Won". But they are all secondary to biofeedback..

.

I will look into your book, Health Won. The more I know the better, I'll be in this process.

I think biofeedback is great council. As the saying goes, "know thy self". Need to listen to my body and how it feels when I eat certain types of foods.

Many thanks for your advise. And for taking the time to help me.
I hope God blesses you as you have been a blessing to us.


Joseph

P.S. I have also been really helped, with your advise you gave to other folks here, about what to eat before doing a fast. It seems to help my ability and energy in fasting and length too. Thank you..

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 22:19 - 20 Aug 2011 22:25 #8986 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast

Christian144 wrote: André,If I may ask, can one have to much glucose, while re-feeding? Can to much sugar from fruit affect the body badly? Or just the wrong sugar's like chocolate, etc.
From my "biofeedback" the more (fruit) sugar I have, it seems the worse I get, right after a fast. I have had hyperglycemia, so that may be connected. I have had great results with veggies, but with my damaged stomach lining, can't seem to handle raw, so I have to cook them, first.


Joseph,

I just wanted to say that I, too, find that too much fruit sugar after a fast (or any time really) does not serve me well. When I broke my 25 day water fast, I did it with celery juice (low sugar) and steamed vegetables (low sugar), then some raw lettuce and tomatoes (low sugar) and then some raw bluebuerries (low sugar). This protocol worked really well for me.

I react very differently to different fruits and it is something I have not been able to understand fully, but it may have to do with the calcium:phosphorus ratio of particular fruits. The ones that seem to unbalance me the most have more phosphorus than calcium, while the ones the seem to give me a sense of balance are higher in calcium than phosphorus.

If I eat certain fruits, like bananas or peaches, which both have more phosphorus than calcium, I will experience what I call "low blood sugar" (a mental and physical energy crash), but if I eat mango or fig or mamey sapote which all have more calcium than phosphorus I feel perfectly normal after eating them.

So, there is something beside the sugar content of the fruit that is responsible for the way that I react/respond to them. With the fruits that unbalance me, I find that if I follow a meal of that fruit by a meal of steamed vegetables (like broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, zucchini, okra, green beans, etc) about 30 minutes later, I can prevent the "crash" that I would get from eating the fruit on its own.

I do not experience this kind of "crash" from rice and beans, but I have trouble digesting rice and beans, which is another issue altogether. But, if you do well with rice and beans Joseph, more power to you. I think they are really good foods and the Macrobiotic Diet has worked really well for many people. I hope you read David Briscoe's book A Personal Peace, which I meantioned on your blog post, as it is a very moving story of his incredible recovery from severe schizophrenia through a Macrobiotic Diet.

Maybe Dr. André can lend some insight into what might be happening here. I am not the only one for whom this is true. There are other I know who have been following a low-fat, raw-vegan diet for several years with this same type of issue (though the specific fruits that are problematic are not always the same as mine).

Blessings, Esmée
The following user(s) said Thank You: Christian144

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
20 Aug 2011 23:04 #8987 by Christian144
Christian144 replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Esmée, :)

It is good to hear from you. You know so much about fruits, and their affect.
What you have to say is very eye opening. I just thought, fruit and the sugar from fruit is all the same.

When I broke my 25 day water fast, I did it with celery juice (low sugar) and steamed vegetables (low sugar), then some raw lettuce and tomatoes (low sugar) and then some raw bluebuerries (low sugar). This protocol worked really well for me.


I will try that. I especially like the celery juice. That should be better, then, going of the fast, and eating first thing, soy yogurt.

If I eat certain fruits, like bananas or peaches, which both have more phosphorus than calcium, I will experience what I call "low blood sugar" (a mental and physical energy crash), but if I eat mango or fig or mamey sapote which all have more calcium than phosphorus I feel perfectly normal after eating them.


I noticed, my crash really hit home, after having 2 banana's in a smoothie.
On day 2, of breaking my fast, so like you, I have this issue as well.

So, there is something beside the sugar content of the fruit that is responsible for the way that I react/respond to them. With the fruits that unbalance me, I find that if I follow a meal of that fruit by a meal of steamed vegetables (like broccoli, cauliflower, brussel sprouts, zucchini, okra, green beans, etc) about 30 minutes later, I can prevent the "crash" that I would get from eating the fruit on its own.


I will do that next time I start to crash. I tend to wait it out, but if it can be address, that would diffidently be better.

I hope you read David Briscoe's book A Personal Peace, which I meantioned on your blog post, as it is a very moving story of his incredible recovery from severe schizophrenia through a Macrobiotic Diet

.

Esmée, I want to and will diffidently order the book. From what I have seen, it looks to be of great encouragement. :) May take awhile to read it, though, since.. I got really bad mental fatigue. Have only so very much mental energy and what little I have, per day, just a few hours, is focused on learning about, dry fasting, mostly. But, I will get to reading it, when I can. I agree, not just for others, but the Macrobiotic Diet, (for me too,) does seem to be working very well. My body seems to desire beans, my mind seems to react well to them, for some reason.

I have trouble digesting rice and beans, which is another issue altogether.


I am sorry you can't have these, due to digestion. But your focus and discipline to stick to what helps you, with staying on the right types of fruits, for sugar content and having cooked veggies, to counter balance, blood sugar problems, seems to be very beneficial. I will also, follow, your insightful pattern you have shown me.

Thank you Esmée. :cheer:

For all that you have done for me, you have my gratitude.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

More
22 Aug 2011 03:28 #8996 by Solis Lucidus
Solis Lucidus replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast

The Fast Doctor wrote: Dear Solis, having fat soon after a fast is outright dangerous. Your whole body is geared towards converting fat to ketones for energy so if you supply fat after a fast this can give you a keto-acidosis. Fatty meals BEFORE a fast is great but please be careful after that.. and eating a dead pig with all the protein in there, well that could lead to rapid protein breakdown with the release of Ammonia.

It is generally safe to break a fast with carbohydrate like fruit but please avoid proteins or fat until all your energy needs have been met. The "negatives" are typically not in the digestive process but in the metabolism.

André


I knew about all that, it was a complete "against my better judgement" action. I don't know if the pain that I experienced in what I assume are my kidneys on a later water fast was the result of eating fat after the fast but it subsided near the end of the 24 hour fast. It was a mostly dull pain that would disappear and then come back with a severe, sharping pain.

Please Log in to join the conversation.

Moderators: TheFastDoctorOckeghem
Time to create page: 0.281 seconds