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Fatty foods before and after fast

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20 Nov 2011 10:50 #9417 by Joy
Joy replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Dear Dr. Andre and Dear Esmee, thank you both for taking time to respond to my questions. I think I have gotten my answer. It is great that we have this forum to discuss fasting. May God bless both of you.
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20 Nov 2011 11:01 #9418 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Dear Joy,

I hope the information was helpful to you. Perhaps I should not have butted in to the doctor's section, but I have found Dr. Johnson's book so helpful to me that I found it impossible to keep my mouth shut, lol...

Wishing you all the best,

Esmée


Dear Dr. André,

That is interesting about the apples.

I have also developed an "intolerance" for apples, as has my mother and a good friend of mine--all of us seem to be hypersensitive to fructose.

Incidentally, 1 pound of apples has 30 gms of free fructose, 12 gms of free glucose, and 10 gms of sucrose (supplying 5 gms of fructose) for a total of 35 gms of fructose and only 17 gms of glucose, again providing a ratio of 2:1.

Do you have a reference showing that ATP is increased after fructose consumption? I would like to compare it to the one Dr. Johnson lists which shows the opposite.


Thanks, Esmée

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20 Nov 2011 12:02 #9419 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Interesting thread, hope it is helpful to many more.

Just one more point about carbohydrate metabolism: The body gets all its energy from ATP. It uses 2 ATP's to convert Glucose to Fructose, whereafter it gains 38 ATP's by metabolizing the Fructose. I prefer to get the fructose in directly as it saves some metabolic energy and time..

A very much cimplified explanation can be found at

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/organic/sugar.html

But meanwhile all metabolic processes are improved by regular fasting.

I repeat that anyone who says Fructose "depletes ATP" will be laughed off the stage in a scientific meeting. I will thus not waste my time reading anything else from such an author.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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21 Nov 2011 09:07 - 21 Nov 2011 09:51 #9420 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Dear Dr. André,

I found this on Wikipedia under the heading Fructose :

"It has been suggested in a recent British Medical Journal study that high consumption of fructose is linked to gout. Cases of gout have risen in recent years, despite commonly being thought of as a Victorian disease, and it is suspected that the fructose found in soft drinks (e.g., carbonated beverages) and other sweetened drinks is the reason for this.[64][65]

In order for the liver to process fructose, it must be phosphorylated by removal of phosphates from adenosine triphosphate (ATP). The ATP gets converted to adenosine monophosphate (AMP), then to inositol monophosphate (IMP), and finally to uric acid,[66] the agent in gout."

So, whoever wrote this article for Wikipedia, is also under the impression that uric acid is a by-product of fructose metabolism and that ATP gets depleted in the process.

Here is a link to the author's source:
The Bitter Truth by Robert Lustig

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23 Nov 2011 09:09 #9421 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Of course, my dear Esmée, one always have to read (and listen!) between the lines. It is easy to concentrate on the 2 ATP's it takes the human metabolism to convert Glucose to Fructose and then conveniently forget about the 38 ATP's that are subsequently formed from the Fructose.

We should note their crafty use of terms like "could, might or may be" as they did not even attempt to explain where the Nitrogen supposedly came from. It seems a bit like an attack on the fresh food industry in favour of the "fast" food (not fasting!) or junk food industry.

It is said if you wish to hit a dog you'll find a stick. I guess the same applies when we search for articles to support our viewpoint and I am not immune to that. But we should allocate much more weight to peer reviewed journals than to sensasionalist popular publications and then weigh the total evidence, not just one or two articles.

I, for one, will continue to concentrate on fresh fruit as the staple of my diet.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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23 Nov 2011 11:42 - 23 Nov 2011 11:46 #9422 by Esmée La Fleur
Esmée La Fleur replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
Dear Dr. André,

If a person does well on a fruit-based diet, like you, then I would never expect them to give it up. But if they are having problems with such a diet, like me, then it may be wise to figure out why it is not working and adjust accordingly.

The information provided in Dr. Johnson book, which is a compilation of many peer-reviewed scientific articles, helps me to understand why I do not personally do well on a fruit-based diet and why I do especially bad on fruits that have more fructose than glucose, such as watermelon.

This knowledge has helped me to tailor my own diet in a way that better serves my own unique metabolic make-up and I am feeling a whole lot better as a result.

I still see nothing in anything I have read which would lead me to believe that Dr. Johnson or the authors of the many studies he sites are encouraging people to eat more processed junk food and less natural whole foods.

Blessings, Esmée

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24 Nov 2011 09:21 #9423 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
The risk here, dear Esmée, is that if you blame poor old innocent Fructose then you might never find the real culprit. There are thousands of different chemicals in fruit. Making a scapecoat of the least likely cause of your symptoms will sidetract your investigations into what is really going on.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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28 Jan 2013 08:46 #15058 by baldota
baldota replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast

The Fast Doctor wrote: I'd like to reiterate: NEVER consume protein rich food while you are stil catabolic (in a fasting metabolism) as this will gear your enzymes towards protein breakdown (releasing ammonia). Thus your body considers protein to be a source of energy, endangering your muscles and organs. You need to revert to anabolism on pure carbohydrates before adding a bit of protein (just enough to satisfy your STRUCTURAL (not energy) requirements. This way your metabolism will always protect your protein (muscle, organ, tencon, etc.) and in doing so reduce the rate of degeneration and aging.
André


Hello Fast Doctor,

I would break my water fast with probably coconut water on the first day and fruits on the second day - mainly bananas, mango and watermelon.

I guess this would satisfy the condition of having high carbohydrate diet, however fruits have proteins too! Coconut, Mango, Banana and watermelon all have a small protein % (about 1%). Would this much protein be completely safe to consume? If not, what are my options?

Regards,
baldota

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28 Jan 2013 13:27 #15064 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Fatty foods before and after fast
You are as always of course correct Baldota.. all food contains protein. That's why I referred to protein RICH food.. foods with more than 10% protein. Fruits have all the protein we need to keep the metabolism going and the levels are low enough to be safe after a fast.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
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