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When Does "Fasting" Become Something Else?

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26 Oct 2012 15:02 #13343 by Hungry Caveman
Hungry Caveman created the topic: When Does "Fasting" Become Something Else?
Hello,

I am new here and have been enjoying exploring your excellent site. But I am not new to fasting. About four and a half years ago I nearly died of complications from being overweight, very sick and out of shape. After leaving the intensive care unit of the hospital I resolved to lose weight quickly or lose my life. I started doing water fasts; I think my first fast was about 5 days.

Since starting nearly five years ago I have done an estimated 50 pure water fasts ranging in length from one day to 47 days. I have lost about 100 pounds and have regained extraordinary health and youthful appearance at age 69. I will not contain my enthusiasm; I consider pure water fasting a miracle; truly the fountain of health and of youth.

One thing I learned (and I hope to learn more on this forum) is that ingesting anything, but water during my fast caused a break down in my progress. Once I started ingesting anything other than water, even just a carrot, it led to my ingesting more and sooner or later the fast was over and my progress was halted. Coffee, in particular, was problematic for me.

Put in the simplest terms my view has been “a water fast is a water fast is a water fast”. I do not wish to sound like a purist, but this is my experience and this is what has worked for me.

I recently left another fasting site because I became rather unpopular with these views. The moderator was advocating something he called “a butter fast”. This is a quote from that moderator:

“ A cup of coffee with medium chain fatty acids in the morning (unsalted organic butter from grass fed beef or coconut oil).

A cup of organic, plain whole milk kefir in the evening.

This will provide caloric restriction. It turns out that medium chain fatty acids are thermogenic and speed up your metabolism. The extra calories in the morning may also signal my body that I'm getting plenty of calories. I'm hoping the coffee with butter (or coconut oil) will increase my metabolism and allow me to shed pounds faster.”


My view is that this is something other than fasting and although it might result in weight loss, it has the effect of keeping the digestive system active and hence cutting off many of the health benefits of pure water fasting. My views were not received well. When I left the site it seemed like everybody was drinking coffee with butter and calling it fasting.

Without injecting yourself into needless controversy do any of the members here, the fasting doctor or the moderators have any opinions or comments? Regardless of your opinions I will listen and remain open minded. :evil:

I believed until I realized that God remains not in the sky, but on Earth in people who are able to be victorious over themselves.
-Porfiry Ivanov

loseweightgetyounger.com

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26 Oct 2012 17:21 - 26 Oct 2012 17:23 #13344 by Ockeghem
Ockeghem replied the topic: When Does "Fasting" Become Something Else?
Hungry Caveman,

I agree with you. If you say you're doing a water fast, then you don't have anything else. If you're doing a juice fast, then that's what it means. Since I invariably drink black coffee and an occasional herbal tea during a fast, I just tell people that I'm fasting, or that I am doing a 'no food at all' fast. I don't have an ounce of solid food when I am fasting. However, since I do drink black coffee, I am not truly engaged in a 'water fast.'

BTW, congratulations on doing a forty-seven day fast. To me, that is extraordinary and something that I might like to attempt one day! :)

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26 Oct 2012 18:04 #13345 by david
david replied the topic: When Does "Fasting" Become Something Else?
Greetings Hungry Caveman you and your beliefs on fasting are very welcome here. Your views are closely aligned to the school of Natural Hygiene. For them water fasting is the only valid fasting anything else is considered a liquid diet or restricted calorie diet. They would agree with you about the benefits derived from a total rest of the digestive system. We are very fortunate here in that The Fast Doctor who has dedicated considerable hours and expertise to this forum is also a purist in that sense and only practices water fasting without the adjunct of coffee or butter to speed up the catabolism. Interesting that we only recently had a thread on this very topic exploring the benefits of what you call thermogenic stimulants particularly coffee. The issue highlighted is that fat breakdown also releases an abundance of toxins into the blood stream giving the body extra work over and above the fast. For those who do put this technique into practice I would recommend The Fast Doctor's Active Elimination Cycle to help eliminate the surplus of toxins.

This will provide caloric restriction. It turns out that medium chain fatty acids are thermogenic and speed up your metabolism. The extra calories in the morning may also signal my body that I'm getting plenty of calories. I'm hoping the coffee with butter (or coconut oil) will increase my metabolism and allow me to shed pounds faster.”


What are the benefits that are reaped from this practice which you cannot get from just water fasting? Accelerated weight loss? In my view a lifestyle change is longer lasting and more beneficial and that is why we endeavor to promote intermittent fasting here. I look forward to reading more about your fasting experiences.

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Small minds discuss people.

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28 Oct 2012 21:05 #13370 by Chelsea Girl
Chelsea Girl replied the topic: When Does "Fasting" Become Something Else?
Hi There, Hungry Caveman!! Welcome!!

I find this is the most supportive health forum I have ever come across online, and everyone is very open, without slashing people for their health choices. I call it "health forum" and not just "fasting forum" because we also love discussing health topics here in general, rather than just fasting.

I take it you eat paleo or primal? just judging from your name! :-)

Some of us here eat meat, others don't. Some IF, others don't. The Doctor, who has supervised over 6000 fasting patients, gets his protein from eggs and dairy, but not meat. I've been vegetarian most of my life, eating very little protein, which brought me some nutritional deficiencies, so I had to reintroduce meat and I am doing very well now :-)

When I fast, I do it for a short period of time (eg Mon to Fri). Unfortunately I have to have my morning cup of coffee on my fasting days. I say unfortunately because I know it's not ideal for "detoxing". But I have a low thyroid and the caffeine kicks starts my adrenal glands in the morning and gets me going (very hectic job). I still feel a massive detox anyway, with the coffee and all. I wish I could do without but my body asks for it! :-)

I also try to exercise when I fast (gym classes, boot camp, strength training, spinning) so I can sleep longer and better, sweat all the toxins out, and my cravings would just fade away. The Doc actually recommends an active fasting and his elimination cycle to get the free circulating fatty acids out of your body.

The beauty of his forum is that we are not being judged for our choices, and people are kind - unlike forums like MDA. We are open to learn from each other here. David and the Doc are the pillars of this site - they are always there happy to help us, from their heart, selflessly. They are amazing people.

I look forward to reading you and to learning from you too!!

BEst wishes,

Chelsea Girl

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science." - Albert Einstein
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29 Oct 2012 00:00 #13376 by Hungry Caveman
Hungry Caveman replied the topic: When Does "Fasting" Become Something Else?

Chelsea Girl wrote: Hi There, Hungry Caveman!! Welcome!!

I find this is the most supportive health forum I have ever come across online, and everyone is very open, without slashing people for their health choices. I call it "health forum" and not just "fasting forum" because we also love discussing health topics here in general, rather than just fasting.

I take it you eat paleo or primal? just judging from your name! :-)

Some of us here eat meat, others don't. Some IF, others don't. The Doctor, who has supervised over 6000 fasting patients, gets his protein from eggs and dairy, but not meat. I've been vegetarian most of my life, eating very little protein, which brought me some nutritional deficiencies, so I had to reintroduce meat and I am doing very well now :-)

When I fast, I do it for a short period of time (eg Mon to Fri). Unfortunately I have to have my morning cup of coffee on my fasting days. I say unfortunately because I know it's not ideal for "detoxing". But I have a low thyroid and the caffeine kicks starts my adrenal glands in the morning and gets me going (very hectic job). I still feel a massive detox anyway, with the coffee and all. I wish I could do without but my body asks for it! :-)

I also try to exercise when I fast (gym classes, boot camp, strength training, spinning) so I can sleep longer and better, sweat all the toxins out, and my cravings would just fade away. The Doc actually recommends an active fasting and his elimination cycle to get the free circulating fatty acids out of your body.

The beauty of his forum is that we are not being judged for our choices, and people are kind - unlike forums like MDA. We are open to learn from each other here. David and the Doc are the pillars of this site - they are always there happy to help us, from their heart, selflessly. They are amazing people.

I look forward to reading you and to learning from you too!!

BEst wishes,

Chelsea Girl



Dear Chelsea Girl,

Thank you for your kind words. Yes I am very impressed with this site. I am still doing a lot of exploring here. I just got through reading Milena’s journal of her combined dry and water fast of 40 days. Not everybody would react this way but this journal almost had me sitting on the edge of my chair; it was that exciting for me. I have done 47 day water fasts and have read some of Dr. Filonov's work and so I could relate to some of what she wrote.

I do not want to plunge into the meat eating versus vegetarian controversy because I have great respect for both positions and viewpoints.

I tried a vegan diet for a while but had some problems with it. Well I loved it! But that was part of the problem. I simply ate far too much fruit; for me watermelon is heroin and grapes are cocaine! I gained weight on an exclusive raw fruit and vegetable diet.

I am insulin resistant and I must limit my carbohydrate intake. But I am not a carnivore. I presently avoid all processed food including wheat products, vegetable oils (except olive oil) and processed sugar.

My diet is really simple and some may say pretty boring. With every meal I eat a HUGE vegetable salad with everything in it except potatoes or corn and I top it off with a little olive oil and lots of red wine vinegar. I mix very moderate amounts of salmon, stewed chicken or eggs into this. Yes I eat some meat, but not very much and like I say it is mostly salmon or chicken. I eat about three pounds of raw, low carbohydrate vegetables every day.

Desert for me is my beloved melons that I eat almost every day also. I do not buy grapes because I cannot control myself. If there are three pounds of grapes in the refrigerator I will eat them all. If I go to bed with grapes in the refrigerator I will wake up in the middle of the night and eat them and hardly be conscious of what I am doing.

I am a 69 year old man that raises a beautiful 11 year old boy, unassisted by mother, grandparents or friends. Erik is my first and only child. He is a great blessing, my only family. BUT I must cook for him. Erik is very supportive of my fasting and diets, however. There is nobody to take Erik if something happens to me and he is very smart and understands that my efforts prolong my life and keep me an active and healthy Daddy. In fact Erik is very much into eating healthy and with the exception of liking spaghetti and bananas and crackers on occasion, he eats almost exactly what I do. It is just that when I fast I have to go into grocery stores and I have to prepare all this great food for him that I also love!

In any case I will enjoy reading posts and contributing to this excellent site. Again thank you for your comments. You have made me feel very welcome.

- Hungry Caveman

I believed until I realized that God remains not in the sky, but on Earth in people who are able to be victorious over themselves.
-Porfiry Ivanov

loseweightgetyounger.com

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