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Breaking Water fast with Fat...?

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14 Mar 2011 15:08 #6175 by Searching
Searching created the topic: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Hello! I follow a low-carbohydrate (20 per day) lifestyle. I know that consuming protein after a fast can be dangerous, so I wondered if it would be safe to break a water fast with fat instead of sugary/carby juices?

Since my body has been running on fat throughout the whole fast, it seems to me that it would be a lot easier on my stomach and a nice way to avoid hunger pangs. Am I wrong?

Thanks!

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14 Mar 2011 15:16 #6177 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Thanks for the post deur Searching. I recommend a diet with about 70-80 per cent carbohydrate (our natural diet), 5-10% protein (any more and you speed up the aging process) and the balance fat.

The risk of breaking a fast with fat is that you have so much fat digestive activity going on (refer to catabolism) that this might over-load your body with ketones. Also, with your fat cells in the process of giving up their content, "the doors are open" into these cells, thus you'll gain fat very easily if you eat fat after a fast.

But a small volume of fat can be very potent in suppressing appetite so used with circumspect it can really form part of the intermittent fasting approach.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Mar 2011 00:18 #6190 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?

Searching wrote: I know that consuming protein after a fast can be dangerous, quote]

Dear Searching,

There are two schools of thought on how to break a fast. One, which is Paul Bregg and other Western thought practitioners consider juice the best way to break out of fast. The other - Russian medical specialist (by the way water fasting and dry fasting, which I pracice, are very popular in Russia)believe that the best way to break out of fast is with probiotic dairy product. In Russia it's called "kefir" and we have it in Los Angeles. You can also use plain yogurt mixed with water or probiotic drinks. The idea behind it that when the babies born, they start with mother's milk, they do not start of with juices. Mother's milk supports ketosis so the baby does not begin to use glucose for energy until fruits and veggies are introduced into their diet. Then the metabolic process changes. This research came out of reading Russia literature and websites.

I dry fast and usually break out by drinking a glass of water, then two hours later "kefir". Only then I drink juices.


May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Mar 2011 04:26 #6203 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Just thinking you said breaking the fast with probiotic dairy product, what about if you break it with baby milk formula I see it on the shelves all the time that would be even more similar to mother's milk.

No idea what it tastes like but I assume it's good for babies so I assume would be fine for adults as well.

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15 Mar 2011 07:51 #6208 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Bear in mind Cory, babies make Lactase and can thus digest Lactose. Adults usually not. Baby formula does not contain probiotic organisms like what Kefir does. What Empress mentions is a valid way of breaking a fast, particularly if you do not have an appendix. But an adult with an intact appendix can start on juices since the appendix actually harboours all the essential probiotic bacteria necessary to start up the digestive process.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.
The following user(s) said Thank You: cory, Milena

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15 Mar 2011 08:08 #6209 by cory
cory replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
It was just an idea, I didn't realize that babies digestion was different from adults, or what's in baby formula.

I also never really looked at probiotic drinks before so I don't know much about them apart from the adverts talking about friendly bacteria.

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15 Mar 2011 08:52 #6210 by Searching
Searching replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
@Doctor: Thanks for the answer! I apologize for the confusion. I am on a ketogenic diet for medical reasons - That's why I asked if breaking with fat was safe. I understand carbohydrates are needed for normal people.

@Empress: Thanks for your opinion! Doesn't kefir and yoghurt contain high amounts of protein? I don't want my liver to be overloaded.

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15 Mar 2011 18:48 #6213 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?

Searching wrote: @Empress: Thanks for your opinion! Doesn't kefir and yoghurt contain high amounts of protein? I don't want my liver to be overloaded.


www.kefir.net/ You can find loads of information on line. Low fat kefir is much better then yougurt. As for protein, I believe it's about 14 gram with 8 grams of carbs in one cup.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Mar 2011 19:08 #6215 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?

The Fast Doctor wrote: What Empress mentions is a valid way of breaking a fast, particularly if you do not have an appendix. But an adult with an intact appendix can start on juices since the appendix actually harboours all the essential probiotic bacteria necessary to start up the digestive process.

André

Dear André,

Thank you for validating my info. I think it becomes a matter of taste and choice. I love kefir and find it a very pleasant way to get out of the fast.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Mar 2011 19:17 #6217 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?

cory wrote: No idea what it tastes like but I assume it's good for babies so I assume would be fine for adults as well.

It doesn't taste all that great...:) Probiotics are way better!

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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15 Mar 2011 22:36 #6218 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
One problem I see with Kefir is that there's more (amino) acids than carbohydrates (14 to 8). I prefer a diet with about 8 parts carbohydrate to 1 part protein. So Kefir should be a small part of the total diet with a lot of low protein vegetables and fruit making up the bulk..

André

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15 Mar 2011 23:49 #6219 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
But wouldn't you say if someone on a low carb diet, Kefir would be a good choice?

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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16 Mar 2011 23:02 #6251 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
I fully agree dear Empress.. but I know of absolultely no condition where I would recommend a low carbohydrate diet, as the human anabolism is driven exclusively by carbohydrate. True, when fasting (catabolic) we run on fat (in the form of ketones) but proteins remain building blocks, and is not the best source of energy due to the excessive waste associated with its conversion back to carbohydrate.

Thus small volumes of Kefir is really good but if a little is goo, more is not necessarily better: Even too much water can kill you!

André

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16 Mar 2011 23:08 #6253 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Absolutely agreed. Kefir is great as the drink one could have in the evening.

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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02 Apr 2011 08:31 #6502 by Joy
Joy replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Empress wrote:
There are two schools of thought on how to break a fast. One, which is Paul Bregg and other Western thought practitioners consider juice the best way to break out of fast. The other - Russian medical specialist (by the way water fasting and dry fasting, which I pracice, are very popular in Russia)believe that the best way to break out of fast is with probiotic dairy product. In Russia it's called "kefir" and we have it in Los Angeles. You can also use plain yogurt mixed with water or probiotic drinks. The idea behind it that when the babies born, they start with mother's milk, they do not start of with juices. Mother's milk supports ketosis so the baby does not begin to use glucose for energy until fruits and veggies are introduced into their diet. Then the metabolic process changes. This research came out of reading Russia literature and websites.

I dry fast and usually break out by drinking a glass of water, then two hours later "kefir". Only then I drink juices.

The Fast Doctor wrote: What Empress mentions is a valid way of breaking a fast, particularly if you do not have an appendix.

André


Doctor André, So you do not oppose the Russian method of breaking a long fast with kefir? But what about harmful ammonia and urea (?) which you said will be produced if one consumes protein right after a fast before consuming plenty of carbodydrates to get out of ketosis? Surely kefir has plenty of protein.

Well, the baby does survive very well on mother's milk after a long fast inside the mother. Or did it ever have a fast? The baby has been receiving nutrients even in the mother's womb. It was not really fasting inside the mother's womb.

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02 Apr 2011 12:10 #6506 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
I agree dear Joy that Kefir is rich in protein and yes indeed some ammonia would be produced. Urea is not a problem as you can handle large volumes of that. But the VOLUME of ammonia produced is proportional to the volume of Kefir or any other protein consumed (and remember fruit also contain protein). Thus a small volume of Kefir, consumed more because of it bacerial content, can help re-start the intestines.

A baby does not fast inside the mother, even if the mother is fasting: There's plenty of nutrients carrid through the umbilical cord to the baby's circulation.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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02 Apr 2011 23:41 #6508 by Milena
Milena replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Thank you André. Reading your posts is like going through med school!...:)

May the Energy you free from digesting serves your Body and Spirit well!

All my posts are based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of the licensed medical practitioner.

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03 Apr 2011 06:53 #6509 by Joy
Joy replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
I see. So juice is actually better than kefir to break a fast, since kefir will still produce more ammonia than juice. Thank you Dr. André

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11 Aug 2011 09:46 #8935 by Solis Lucidus
Solis Lucidus replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
Adding on to this topic, what would happen if you followed an Atkins-style diet/high-fat, low-carb diet after breaking a water fast? Wouldn't it have to be initially low in protein to avoid the ammonia problem?

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11 Aug 2011 14:50 #8939 by TheFastDoctor
TheFastDoctor replied the topic: Re: Breaking Water fast with Fat...?
When I met with dr Atkins shortly before his early death, we had to agree to disagree. I believe in a low protein diet as a rule and yes you will do damage by following this diet particularly after a fast.

André

All my posts are "generic", based on my opinions and experiences only and are not intended to replace the advice of your own licensed medical practitioner.

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